Flat tires on a re-saw band saw?

[Rod Sheridan]

Yes.…..Regards, Rod

[Erik Loza]

Eric ,where is a good source for new rubber tires for a Centauro ? Mine are like Rod Sheridan described, glued in place with a butt joint on an angle. At least 1/4'' thick maybe 10mm, I would have to measure to be sure. About a week ago ,I had just started my saw when my blade broke. A fairly large chunk was ripped out of my upper tire. The bottom one is still real good. Would it be a good idea to replace both tires at the same time or just the one that needs it ?

Mike, not really sure on replacement tires. If it were me, I might try to find some urethane tires and see if that were an option. Also, do you really need to fix it? Does the blade track and tension OK? You might be OK just leaving it as-is or possibly, try to fill the missing chunk in with some sort of rubber patch. Just thinking out loud.

Erik

[Tom Trees]

Thanks Erik for sharing your knowledge about all things Centauro
I bought a new Centauro tire for my machine, but it is rather thin compared to the vulcanized rubber, and
one would need to install it inside out on a wheel without a groove and dress off the rib,
possibly flip it and dress the other side after, not much meat to play with.

I attempted to fill some damage in my lower tire using some polyurethane glue, as I seen Jack Forsberg had done so before.
I used some Gorilla glue for the first time, and possibly the last,
might as well have glued styrofoam together.
SAM_5093.jpg
I reckon regular shoe glues like Pattex contact adhesive would be much better for the job, although I haven't tried, some old stuff I have seems a bit rubbery on the end of the nozzle, and would likely be the best cheap stuff.
Van Husky and some others have suggested some 3m rubber and gasket material for the job of installation, so guessing suitable for small patches or even filler to some small extent.
Not sure what 24hr slow cure epoxy would be like, is it softer than some other types?, couldn't tell ya.

Here is a link to some possibly suitable material, various thickness, widths and lengths available for only a few quid, far cheaper than even the cheapest tires out there.
cheap enough that samples doesn't seem uncommon practice.
I suppose you can find this stuff at the big box places over there, now you have the name for it.
Should someone actually need to get new rubber.

One fella on the UK forum suggested this stuff, a fibre re-enforced rubber of sorts, but couldn't recall exactly what adhesive used apart from it being a contact type.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SOLID-PLY...01&mpt=8762588


All the best
Tom

[Mike Kees]

I took a closer look yesterday at my saw when I was working at my shop. Bottom tire is still in real good condition ,I spun it around one full revolution and determined it is one piece . This would indicate glued down or vulcanized to me. The top tire however is installed as Rod talked about with a scarf joint that is slightly diagonal. This is the tire that lost the "chunk". I googled "rubber bandsaw tires'' online and found a supplier that sells them (one piece). They also sell a 3M adhesive to install them with. Will probably proceed with purchasing two tires and installing the top only for now.

[andrew whicker]

Bringing up this old thread...

how do you fill the groove on the Centauro wheels? Use the same rubber? cut off a small width and glue it in w/ epoxy?

Also, when re-tiring a CO 600 (23 5/8" dia), can you order pre made tires for 24" machines? Do you have to order a special size?

[Erik Loza]

Andrew, do you really need to fill the groove in order to move forward on this? I’m assuming that you’ll using this machine with a big blade. The wheels should be at least 1” wide. In that case, even if there’s a negative divot in the center of the wheel, how is that going to affect blade tracking? I guess you could fill the groove with epoxy putty or JB Weld if you really felt like doing this. You could also call SCM Group and order replacement tires for an MM20/S600P. Not sure if they would fit but that would be the closest to OEM.

As far as pre-made tires go, please be aware that things like Carter urethanes may not fit properly, since they are for a true 24” wheel rather than a 600mm wheel. Didn’t you have some shop or service that could re-tire your wheels in another thread? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Erik

[Tom Trees]

Apologies for more misinformation on my part,
I was completely unaware that my Centauro spare tire from the main dealer (Scott&SargeantUK)
actually had a crowned profile to the tires, so impossible to flip inside out and dress off the rib like I had imagined.
Attachment 511738

Attachment 511736Attachment 511737Attachment 511738

What appeared like a flat profile on the tires, is certainly not what the blade feels
I never took a proper look at the tires, as they seemed kinda rough, and it took an embarrassing amount of time to take a closer look at them again. .


Attachment 511740Attachment 511739

Yes they may appear flat, but that is anticlastic curvature at play, when something flat is bent into a circumference,
basically the sides of the tire lift when drawn around the wheel, as seen clearly here.
Attachment 511741

as mentioned on a Cooks Sawmills video about blades....

Not to mention the only clue of tire profile regarding the camber being of much importance on the SP
(you'll have to see post 6 to get a clickable link to download it,
https://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/threads...manual.141846/

Which on the CO 600 tire, the apex of the crown being 1mm closer to the front of the wheel, @ 17.5mm.
Attachment 511743

Sorry about that
Here's the video explaining that, and I won't waste my time bothering trying to convince someone that flat tires are no good,s
well at least for something of this size, as the lack of beam tension is very very apparent, and all the blade will do is rub hard enough off the thrust guide
and stall the machine, though interestingly will still chomp cross grain alright.
https://youtu.be/Y-pyJr7EMTw?si=8ZH39dTQDFauAR_x&t=166

[Tom Trees]

I think Andrew's Centauro CO is the second gen welded sheet steel saw, which I've not been able to get the production dates from,
as to when the first gen finished, not found that out yet.
The main difference between being the first editions having non telescopic guide post, and the seemingly non-adjustable lower wheel!
well I presume as much on this metal cutting flavour? (I've only started looking at these for interests sake)
Centauro CO first steel.jpg

Can't find the badge on this one, but if that's correct, then the machine in question is the one which came after this one,
which was made until at least 1993
203618_001.jpg203618_003.jpg1993CO.jpg

And the foot mounted motor was no more by at least 1996,
Screenshot-2023-12-6 Brumat Vrtojba d o o .jpgCENTAURO CO 1996.jpg407404623_845850827548426_8671874523763797599_n.jpg407410041_845850900881752_7895739339488794214_n.jpg

And notably the wheels not being as nice, and still presumably featuring a wheel without a groove,
as I guess a replacement rubber like one would have been used instead of what's presumably cork/rubber composite.

I guess the tire must have got ripped off the wheel in this case, as there's plenty of rubber on those vulcanized tires,
to dress them a dozen times or so...
I suggest getting some sorta cheap steel plate, say from a junk cheapie lidl/aldi tablesaw blade,
and cuttin it with an angle grinder to re-crown those tires.

You get loads of chances at this, even if you deliberately do things wrong.!



All the best
Tom

[andrew whicker]

Andrew, do you really need to fill the groove in order to move forward on this? I’m assuming that you’ll using this machine with a big blade. The wheels should be at least 1” wide. In that case, even if there’s a negative divot in the center of the wheel, how is that going to affect blade tracking? I guess you could fill the groove with epoxy putty or JB Weld if you really felt like doing this. You could also call SCM Group and order replacement tires for an MM20/S600P. Not sure if they would fit but that would be the closest to OEM.

As far as pre-made tires go, please be aware that things like Carter urethanes may not fit properly, since they are for a true 24” wheel rather than a 600mm wheel. Didn’t you have some shop or service that could re-tire your wheels in another thread? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Erik

What's the secret to getting a hold of them?

Anyway, I left a VM. Last time I went thru one of their two websites to leave my contact info.. that was probably a month ago. Got busy, life, etc. Now they are closed (east coast). They have possibly the worst website for parts that I've seen considering how highly their tools are rated.

I don't know if the groove needs to be filled. Does it? I guess I can try without. Also, does the clear rubbery coating need to be removed from the wheels before installing another tire?

To the people ordering rubber and scarfing their own joints... where are you buying the rubber?

There are these for sale... for a pretty big sum of money: https://www.scosarg.com/centauro-48-...saw-spare-tyre

[andrew whicker]

Mine is 1980-something. SN 7565. So presumably 1985 due the last 5? Idk.

[Tom Trees]

If you haven't removed the vulcanized real rubber tires, off those wheels, then I suggest you don't!

I see you're looking at the Centauro tire, which isn't what it looks like on the pic, you will receive the same as mine.
Then the faff of removing the old tires, cutting the tongue on the underside, as these are for the modern Centauro CO machines, what Erik has mentioned,
and then you'd need to buy some glue, and that stuff comes with an equally hefty cost,
should you go for the stuff like what Van has mentioned, to bond them.

Erik has mentioned a Carter tire, which would need be dressed, should one with vulcanized wheels from 50 years ago (or however long real rubber takes to break down)
wish to replace, they might wish to do the best they can, and perhaps like the thickness of the rubber to be period correct etc

To cut to the chase, as it were...I can chance a guess you may not yet believe me about my thoughts are regarding flat tires,
as I did mention variables regarding a straight edge against the wheel before I dressed them,
whatever that error might be, that the square might pick up would be very small.

One other possible reason for scrutiny one might mention, is the wider block used for the crowned profile
so another chance that the original block I was using was throwing things off a bit.

But the idea of the upper wheel tilting might discount either both or neither is up for dispute, dunno.
What I can say is I've done this a few times and not seen much difference, compared to when I first attempted to crown the wheels
to get rid of a crater, which I should'a patched with a boot sole, and some cheap contact adhesive.
So I seen all that "flutter" and got rid of it, without altering wheel alignment (table was on at the time)
That was rule no.1, nothing resembling freehanding, or interrupted shavings.

Nothing stopping you from seeing how a flat profile works, and then you can move onto the importance of the edge of the rubber
(which doesn't act as a camber) and spend an age with wheel protrusion, i.e depth from chassis (which makes no difference)
before whatever next.

It's a good idea to start with, and should you get down to a flat profile when the pen ink is gone,
then you can stop.
You'll likely see the blade still wander on the very top of the upper wheel, when hand turning the wheels,
as having flat tires will not hide anything.
So you have choices then, still pursue the flat tire ideology, and proceed with alignment...
or forget that, crown the rubber and wing it regarding alignment, possibly as per in the Laguna manual or the Rikon guide.

Though worth mentioning again your era CO is the only one which accurate alignment on everything is possible .

All the best

Tom

[Mel Fulks]

I’ve seen both types work well. Only kind we had trouble with was some cheap thick plastic stuff that had no “ grabity “. That’s what
happens when a new hot-shot office guy buys cheap junk ….and wants a raise for his research in finding low priced rubbish.

[Erik Loza]

What's the secret to getting a hold of them? …

LOL… Unfortunately, I can’t add have any insight there. I seem to recall that replacement tires for the MM24s were around $50 each but don’t quote me on that. Could these be a solution?

https://sgtool.com/product/2-urethan...00-mm-x-32-mm/

As far as prepping the cast iron wheel, I personally wouldn’t put any more work in than wire-brushing off any crud or obvious blobs of glue or whatever. Hope this helps.

Erik