AGAIN with the wiring questions

[Keith Hooks]

The good news: I'm moving into a new house this weekend.

The bad news: The garage will become my shop, but it only has 1 receptacle in it. Yes... one receptacle. I know, try and hold back the tears.

Anyway, I'm of course intending to add more, both 110 and 220v. The existing receptacle is a GFI and its location in the garage basically renders it useless to me. The 220v circuit is easy. I'll just add a breaker and run some wire. However, I'm wondering if the additional 110v will need to be GFI protected. Would it be wise to tap into the existing circuit?

I plan to run 12 Ga everywhere with a 20A breaker and 20A receptacles. I only have one tool, the TS, that uses 220v. I do plan to buy a bandsaw in the near future that uses it as well. Aside from that I just have the 6" jointer, 13" planar, and 1.5hp dust collector.

Wish me luck...

[Hoa Dinh]

While you're at it, may as well add a 60A panel. It gives you room to grow if needed.

If not, add at least two 240V circuits - one for the power tool and one for the DC. I'd add at least two 20A 120V circuits. Ask you city if codes require GFI.

I would not tap into the existing 120V circuit, especially if it shares with lighting or garage door opener. I would use that outlet for small stuffs (battery charger, portable power drill, ROS, ...).

The lighting should be separated into two difference circuits. If one breaker pops, you still have some light in the shop.

[Don Baer]

Keith,
I'd run seperate 110 Volts plugs and I'd run 2 circuits. alternating between circuits. Check you local codes since they may or may not require GFI's on those circuits. If so then make the first receptical in each circuit a GFI. and you should be OK. If your going to run your DC (off of 220 ( I would) then run a seperate 220 for it and then one for your planer etc.

[Mike Henderson]

Put GFCI on all your 120 volt outlets. Why would you risk your life to save a few dollars?

Mike

[Don Baer]

Put GFCI on all your 120 volt outlets. Why would you risk your life to save a few dollars?

Mike

Michael, by putting the GFI's first the other recpticals on that circuit are also protected.

[Mike Henderson]

Don, yes, I'm aware of that. What I meant was to protect each 120 volt outlet with GFCI. I guess I wasn't clear. Sorry.

And just to clarify, you have to wire the first outlet equipped with the GFCI outlet in a certain way in order to get the advantages of GFCI on the downstream outlets. The instructions will tell you how to do it.

Mike

[Chuck Trisdale]

When I moved to Memphis, I moved all the tools in, and noticed very quickly I had a power problem. There I was staring at one 120V recepticle. So after fighting it for about 2 months the "wiring new electricity" project vaulted up the list.

I left the circuit that was in there alone so I would have another breaker for that one. I wish at the time I had run 220V while I was at it, so do that for sure. I ran one 30A 120V circuit over 10G or 12G wire (cant remember - I think I went with 10G bc of the 30 amps) to 3 recepticles and it has done fine for me. I did make sure that I had recepticles that were rated for the higher amps running through them though.

As far as the GFCI. I didnt have one there to begin with so I cannot speak to that.

[Brian Triplett]

I had the same thing, one outlet, not includig the garge door opener. I checked my panel and it was full. I add to run a new sub-panel - 60 amp I believe. It was worth it. I now have 3 - 220 outlets (ts, Bs, DC). I would plan were you want to put certain items. for example my air compressor, 15amps, well thats about all a 20 amp breaker can take at one time, no running the window AC off the same breaker or jointer or planer. Stuff like that. I've been told to add a safety factor into was is going into which breaker, 20 amp breaker should see no more than about 18 amps.

[Rob Russell]

Current electrical code as adopted in most areas requires that the garage receptacles be GFI-protected per NEC article 210.8(A)(2).

GFI receptacles are cheap, so I'd echo Mike's comment about trying to save a few $ vs. having the protection.

I also agree with Hoa - if you're going to run a new circuit to the garage, install a subpanel. It's just about the same as putting in a 240v circuit - except it has the neutral conductor. That gives you the flexibility to add circuits as needed without running all the way back to the main panel. If you do add a subpanel, make sure that you put it in a location where you're not going to store stuff in front of it. You need a 36" deep x 30" clear "working space" for the subpanel.

Rob
Addy protocol - unlicensed, but experienced homeowner electrician

[Chuck Trisdale]

I mainly would like to add some more circuits in there now and am stuck with what I ran. I had no idea about the GFCI. I think I will go get new recepticles now though. I knew they werent very expensive at the time. I just never thought of it since the 1st one wasnt.

[Doyle Alley]

I may be in the minority here, but I hate GFCI outlets. Don't get me wrong - I like the idea of the protection. It's the implementation that has got me fuming. I have had nothing but problems with them. When I remodeled the bathrooms, I put in GFCI outlets. I had to keep going back to Home Depot until I got outlets that would actually hold the reset button in. Just last week, I had to replace one of them because it simply stopped working.

When I bought my electric pressure washer, it wouldn't run more than half a second before tripping the GFCI built into the power cord. I finally cut it off and replaced it with a standard grounded plug.

It seems like they just aren't built with the same kind of durability that is built into the other outlets. Until I find some that actually work dependably, I'm hesitant to put them in my shop.

[Chris Padilla]

I think a #4 for the 60 A sub-panel is right?? I ran a 50 A sub-panel on #6--it then feeds my A/C and some shop outlets on that side of the garage and the crawl space lights/outlets.

You'll want some dedicated circuits for various items like an air compressor and the dust collector as these items could well be running at the same time as your ww'ing equipment (TS, Jointer, Planer, BS, etc.). Also, think about adding copious lighting; I don't think you can have enough light so save a circuit for the lights, too.

[Rob Russell]

I ran one 30A 120V circuit over 10G or 12G wire (cant remember - I think I went with 10G bc of the 30 amps) to 3 recepticles and it has done fine for me. I did make sure that I had recepticles that were rated for the higher amps running through them though.

Chuck,

I sort of skimmed over this before and happened to go back and see it.

FYI, it's specifically against the NEC to run a 30 amp circuit and put normal 15 or 20 amp receptacles on it. Article 210.21(B)(2) and the associated table specifically say that a 30 amp circuit must have 30-amp rated receptacles. The plug configuration on a 30-amp receptacle is different than 15/20-amp receptacles, so you can't use the 30-amp receptacle as a "general purpose" receptacle for the normal plug configuration on all of our tools.

If you had a typo and really ran a 20-amp circuit, that's fine. Also FYI, you can use 15-amp rated receptacles on a 20-amp circuit.

Rob

[Chris Padilla]

I may be in the minority here, but I hate GFCI outlets.

I have the same problem in my garage with a particular circuit. The GFCIs are always tripping. I have another circuit where they are just jim-dandy fine so I know it is the GFCI that is the problem.

I thought I heard/read that they are good for one-trip...after that they aren't guaranteed any more!

I also don't think they are too cheap at ~$12...especially when they aren't working well.

[Rob Russell]

I think a #4 for the 60 A sub-panel is right?? I ran a 50 A sub-panel on #6--it then feeds my A/C and some shop outlets on that side of the garage and the crawl space lights/outlets.

You'll want some dedicated circuits for various items like an air compressor and the dust collector as these items could well be running at the same time as your ww'ing equipment (TS, Jointer, Planer, BS, etc.). Also, think about adding copious lighting; I don't think you can have enough light so save a circuit for the lights, too.

Chris,

#6 copper individual THWN conductors (obviously run in conduit/"raceway") have a rated ampacity of 65 amps per table 310.16. #6 NM cable would be good for 55 amps, even though it's copper conductors.

Rob