enough whining! how many will do something?

[larry merlau]

as a country we "work" so we can spend or monies buying tools so when we get home from the 9-5 we can work building the quality furniture we can no longer afford to buy? i`m just some ol` hick from the sticks but even i can see that most of us feel better about ourselves building "stuff" whatever that "stuff" is, so why not try and figure a way to build "stuff" for a living instead of working all week to be able to do so as a hobby? .02 tod

tod! now that's got it right and some great english too. here i thought you were keepin tune with your hound dog on the porrch

[Frank Fusco]

I support Tod's postion fully. I'm a proud American flag waver. I have devoted a large portion of my life to educating people, young and old, about the origins of our American freedoms. That said, the fact of life is, we Americans are also loyal to our pocket books. I did not answer the poll because, I believe, it should have one more option: 'price and value' are paramount. Most of us do not buy cheap just because it is cheep. Most of us do not buy expensive just because it is the most costly item out there. We balance quality with price and make a decision about value. Often that is subjective and personal but, in the long run, the best value items are what stay on the market. Tod, if you are thinking of a start-up company making table saws, lathes, whatever, you are looking at a multi-million dollar risk.

[tod evans]

frank, this thread was started for a couple reasons, first to get folks thinking. second i`d like nothing more than to see american engineering and manufacturing return as the staple of this countrys economy. obviously i ain`t smart or rich enough to wave my magic wand and make this happen but my thoughts where/are that with the collective wisdom here on the creek if such a dream is doable it could be started right here? if not well.........not the first time my ideas have proven fruitless...02 tod

[Dino Makropoulos]

frank, this thread was started for a couple reasons, first to get folks thinking. second i`d like nothing more than to see american engineering and manufacturing return as the staple of this countrys economy. obviously i ain`t smart or rich enough to wave my magic wand and make this happen but my thoughts where/are that with the collective wisdom here on the creek if such a dream is doable it could be started right here? if not well.........not the first time my ideas have proven fruitless...02 tod

Good idea Tod.

Invent a make new power tools.

Why not?

[Jerry Bittner]

All this talk US build versus foreign reminds me of the bumper sticker I saw reading Buy American -- on the bumper of a Toyota.

Folks, its a world economy -- get used to it.

[Dennis Peacock]

It's a world "economy". yes......

Junky tools from across the pond? Most Yes.....some No.....

Shake off the world economy stuff and why can't we be the U.S. of A. that sets the standards for the rest of the world to follow? Is it because we've become so passive that we dont' care who leads the way, just as long as the way is lead and we can "get by" for yet another year?

Sheesh!!! Let's wake up and get the U.S. back on track as a leader and stop China from taking over. <ramble mode off>

[Lee DeRaud]

All this talk US build versus foreign reminds me of the bumper sticker I saw reading Buy American -- on the bumper of a Toyota.

Likely as not, that Toyota was built in Kentucky. I had the same reaction from my next-door neighbor (who works for a Cadillac dealer) when I traded my Canadian-built Oldsmobile for an Acura...built in Ohio.

Sometimes being the biggest customer really matters, even in a "world economy".

[Chris Barton]

I'm guessing that I represent your ideal demographic; soon to be 50, plenty of "disposable" income, longterm woodworker that likes high quality tools, subscribes to 8 woodworking publications, does all types of wood work including lathe work and even some carving. However, "where" something is made is entirely secondary to a number of other factors. Top of my list of desireable qualities of a tool is that it does what it's supposed to do well and accurately without too much fuss. Cost does figure in this equation but only in the sense that it's a follow-up consideration. I can give you a great example of this. I purchased a large lathe a little over a year ago and when making my choice I looked at many lathes and tried many ranging from >$8K down to about $1.5K. I looked very seriously at the Oneway 2436, a lathe considered by many to be the pennical of high end machines and unquestionably a very precise and high quality machine. This lathe is only available from a few retail sources and basically has to be built after the customer puts in an order, very few are sitting on a showroom floor waiting to be sold. The Oneway 2436 runs about $7K after taxes and before delivery. I liked it very much but, bought a Powermatic 3520a instead. That's because I honestly couldn't see how (nor feel how when I demoed the machines) it was to be considered better than the PM. My PM costs me around $2.5K delivered and including every accessory available. I know some folks (heck, many turners) who would give a certain body part to own a Oneway but, when pressed on why they can't really say. Perception is reality for these folks. Same thing with planes and some hand tools. Some folks can and do pay significant money for LN tools because of the "perception" of their status and performance. Yet, I bet with their eyes closed they couldn't tell the difference between a LN and a well tuned Groz (well under $100).

I was at my local Woodcraft this morning and noticed they are now selling Sawstops and are doing well according to the manager. I asked him why and his answer was simple: "the 50-something guy buying a table saw is easy to convince to buy the Sawstop not because it's a better saw than a PM2000 but, because of the safety feature." The hobbiest woodworker often sees value not in the performance of the machine but, rather in the perception of the value and in the case of Sawstop the safety sells. In the case of the Oneway lathe, it's value appears to transend performance and lies in the "panache" of owning a Oneway, kind of like owning a Rolex.

So, if the right machine comes along with the right perception of value then "they will come" and buy it. But, I seriously doubt that where it's made alone can ever again be the driving marketing message to push sales.

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

To tool up to make a sliding table saw line would cost about 3 million dollars.

To Market the new line would cost about 2 million.

In theory you can do it on the cheap but you will be making the saws yourself or in India and selling them on onseys and twoseys for about 10 years.

[Steven Wilson]

So, go out and sell your current machines and buy Northfield; quality product, American made, will last for years. Oh yeah, start saving your pennies.