I can't find rec woodworking. It CAN'T be THAT bad.
Moderation too severe
Moderation not severe enough
Moderation is right on as applied
Should we keep the Super Moderator
Should we fire the Super Moderator
I can't find rec woodworking. It CAN'T be THAT bad.
Much better to have a little too severe moderation than not severe enough. I have tried some of the forums of the not severe enough type and they are a mess. I do not go back because they are a waste of time.
I think that the moderators are very good here and that is a primary reason that this site is so good. I also think that the requirement that you use your real name is also a contributing factor. I would not even mind seeing a requirement that you have to list your correct location.
Whatever it takes to keep the jerks out of here. Yes, I said jerks and I mean it. A lot of you members know the types that I am talking about from being on other foums.
To everyone that works to keep this forum a great place to visit: KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!!!
Allen
If I have a problem with your moderating Ken I'll PM you until then keep on keepin on.
I usually find it much easier to be wrong once in while than to try to be perfect.
My web page has a pop up. It is a free site, just close the pop up on the right side of the screen
fwiw, there are some people here that use "real" names which are ficticious. They just look real.Originally Posted by Allen Bookout
The real names thing is something I could care less about. As I had been active elsewhere as mikew, it would have been handy, but like I said, I don't really care.
It isn't the "real" names, and to a certain extent, it isn't even all this gushy sentiment, nor misplaced castigation of all other forums which affect the "environment" here. It is all the active members [regardless of "real" names or not] in conjunction to those things the mods do, both seen and not seen.
My location is shown..but is it real?
But it ain't one single, seemingly capricious individual who wants reaffirmation or whatever that he is doing fine. It's everyone.
Take care, Mike
who will avoid the inevitable group hug from now on...
Here:Originally Posted by Bob Weisner
Enjoy.
Last edited by Ken Salisbury; 08-20-2006 at 8:15 PM. Reason: Direct link to another public forum - TOS violation
Yoga class makes me feel like a total stud, mostly because I'm about as flexible as a 2x4.
"Design"? Possibly. "Intelligent"? Sure doesn't look like it from this angle.
We used to be hunter gatherers. Now we're shopper borrowers.
The three most important words in the English language: "Front Towards Enemy".
The world makes a lot more sense when you remember that Butthead was the smart one.
You can never be too rich, too thin, or have too much ammo.
I'm new here, but I've lurked for a long time. I just registered. I didn't use the name on my birth cetificate. If that excludes me, fine. If I want someone to know my real name and any other personal information, it will be at my descretion that they obtain it. It is simply too easy to obtain too much personal information over the internet as it is. My wife had her identity stolen two years ago when she unknowingly applied for a job with an unscrupulous individual that set up interviews for the sole purpose of obtaining people's personal information. I have to carry a signed letter from my state's division of motor vehicles with me so that if we should be asked for her ID by law enforcement, they won't arrest her. That's probably one of the easiest burdens we've had to bear.Originally Posted by Mike Wenzloff
Regarding the ease of access of personal information over the internet that I mentioned above, do any of you realize that county records are public information? All you need is the name of the individual and the county and state they reside in, as long as the individual's county has web access to that information (and many counties are moving toward access in this manner). DUI? Divorce? Domestic restraining order? Criminal charges, with or without conviction? Civil litigation? How much someone paid for their house? It's all there, for anyone to view. While I do not have anything to hide to people that I consider close friends, I simply do not care for relative strangers having access to information concerning my affairs.
Regarding the moderation of these forums, I have to side with some of the individuals that have come forward to say that yes, it is somewhat heavy. Sometimes to the extent of being comical.
Finally, I'd like to add that there is some very good information here and there are some very bright and talented people posting in these forums.
Doesn't bother me a bit, Bud!
It may ripple a brook or two. There are other places on the net where identity doesn't affect the quality of communication.
btw, I illustrated what you talked about as regards personal identity to an individual.
I demonstrated that in 20 minutes of searching, I had everything necessary about him to rip off his identitiy, and only because I knew his name and to ease the gathering of info, his general location.
It is easy.
Take care, Mike
You can be suprised at what's out there. We got a new manager where I work. In just a few minutes, I found that he'd had a DUI, he'd been married three times and that, form the looks of it, his second wife really, really didn't like him.
We are slightly wandering from the subject.
I have read this thread in great detail and have some comments for clarification purposes. I have not quoted whose comments I am referring to. You can go back and look if you like.
Since I am complaining I think some of the rules are silly. Like not allowing a link to another forum? Why? When you can provide enough info to find it anyway.
Due to the high volume of posts, a moderator would have to go to each of those links to ensure they are actually legitimate and germaine to the subject, making the moderation job much harder and time consuming. Direct links to other public forums will not be allowed.
While I believe that you're (mostly) doing a fine job, I found that remark extremely patronizing. I don't think the underlying spirit of SMC is served by trivializing members' opinions as "nothing better to do".
I would suggest that even your comment of "nothing better to do" was typed with a light heart. (maybe)
I apologize - The comment was actually made in jest.
Did the thread that (I assume) led to this one disappear into the ether?
The thread was moved to the Off Topic forum and is still there for your viewing however it is locked to further posting:
http://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=41230
I also know a few that are employed directly with manufacturers of several different brands of woodworking tools who would participate here if they didn't have to use their real name AND if the bandwagon didn't get loaded up when somebody has a problem that appears to be the user's fault and the retailer and/or manufacturer is hesitant about writing it off as a warranty claim
We have many more members from manufacturers/suppliers than you might realize. I have never had a complaint about post content from a single one of them. Many, many problems have been resolved by those members. Most of them do not even indicate who they work for. I try very hard to insure bashing is limited. I edit lots of that bashing when appropriate.
I always have to make certain that I dial back my roughness as though I'm dealing with a 4 year old with self esteem issues when I post here.
Actually I am 73 and have never been accused of having self esteem problems before.
If your not in the "in crowd" here, you definitely have to walk on egg shells.
There is no "in crowd" here. I assure you, everyone is treated the same. I try very hard to never show partiality to any individual(s)There are quite a number of members who never get dinged because they follow the rules. Maybe you mean they are the "in crowd".
So again, I feel I must ask, what is the point of this thread? Is Ken just beating around the bush looking for compliments, or is he really interested in your thoughts on how he moderates? If he is truly interested in your thoughts then why would he state that he will continue to moderate the same as he always has and why hasn't he taken the time to reply to some of your gracious comments.
I assure you I am really interested in the opinions of all the members.
What I mean by continuing to moderate as before is that I will enforce the Terms and Policies of SMC until they are changed.
I am replying right now. I don't respond to "gracious" compliments or thanks since I am not looking for them in the first place.
we can't really discuss if SMC's moderation is good or bad without first understanding what good moderation is.
Gee I thought that was what I was trying to find out by starting this thread. Thanks for the inputs - even if I don't agree with all of them.
It could also be that Ken has nothing better to do than stir the pot by starting such a trivial thread. Then sit back and watch it unfold and cause even more division or controversy. Because no matter how much you discuss the moderating on this forum and how you think a moderator such moderate, nothing will come from it.
This comment is so far off base it is hard to respond to.
I have plenty to do especially when it comes to moderating this forum.
I have gotten some good feedback in this thread and some changes will occur. You may feel it is trivial but I don't.
If I have a problem with your moderating Ken I'll PM you until then keep on keepin on.
That is the proper thing to do. I answer any and all questions posed to me via PM's. If it involves why I took certain moderating actions I explain them to the inquirer.
If I want someone to know my real name and any other personal information, it will be at my descretion that they obtain it
I will simply quote the Terms of Service:
A. Registration
Registration requires that each member provide (1) true, accurate, current and complete information on the SawMill Creek registration form and (2) maintain and promptly update the Registration Data as necessary to keep it true, accurate, current and complete.
Members are required to supply real first and last names as well as an active email address. Email addresses will only be used to contact our members when the forum Administrator deems necessary. Our forum software provides members the opportunity to render their email address invisible.
If, after investigation, SawMill Creek has reasonable grounds to suspect that any Member's information is untrue, inaccurate, not current or incomplete, SawMill Creek may suspend or terminate that Member's account and prohibit any and all current or future use of our forums (or any portion thereof) by that individual other than as expressly provided herein.
I have spent more than 2 hours responding to the posts in this thread. I hope it indicates I do care what the members have to say and I appreciate your inputs, both positive and negative.
Last edited by Ken Salisbury; 08-20-2006 at 1:25 PM.
Hey Joe, Thanks for the response. I think that we share some of the same philosophy. Just wanted your thoughts on the following questions, that I had on your reply. And I must say for the record that I really like this place. I don't have a problem with the moderators; except on two occassions. Once when Dennis yanked a thread and once when Ken pulled one. Moderators do a thankless job, and they are what makes this site so good. And personally I think they are doing a great service, and one that many of us present on this site would not, or could not do. But I do have to question actions. I have to critically think about a situation, not just give a knee jerk "pat on the back" or a "quick and thoughtless condemnation". Hopefully something can be learned from this thread and poll- on the side of both the administrators and the members. To just turn a blind eye, to this discussion, and say, "welp everything is hunky dory", and "Ken you are doing an outstanding job", is not critically thinking about the issue at hand. And will not make this place a better place to be. Again keep in mind that I am not saying that it is not a great place...just that everyone, regardless of whom it is, has room for improvement. I believe Ken is asking sincerely, and not looking for a quick pat on the back, it is really unfortunate that others feel alienated here, because it has been a great place for me to visit; I guess I don't pay too much attention to whether or not there is a n "in crowd". Just as you say I just use common sense and everything seems to be just fine. Thanks again, Bill
[quote=Joe Unni]Fair points Bill. My responses are below. And no offense taken.
-joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Unni
Please for give me.
The fact that this is even being questioned or discussed seems bizarre to me.
This is a private forum. In what sense do you mean private?
Versus public (i.e. government). They (SMC) can make whatever rules they choose even without a vote. If they decide to ask for input, they do. It is agreed that SMC is a private forum, and therefore can write any rules they wish. But shouldn't it be inherent in every administrator to want the best for their entity? This requires listening to input from others and gleaning from that input important information that would further improve their entity, whether business or government-private or public? Everyone and everyplace has room for improvement.
The TOS seem pretty clear (though honestly I've not read them). If you have not read them, then how can you say that they are pretty clear?
Fair enough. But I think my next statement quantifies this (albeit no too clearly). I don't know ALL state and federal laws, but not having been arrested tells me that they must be pretty easy to follow. Yes, some things are basic common sense. It would be literally impossible to read all of the government rules and regulations; a person would die before this is accomplished. Conversely though, reading the rules of SMC doesn't take that long. Laws and rules may not be inherently defective, in and of themselves, but the problem lies in the interpretation of the laws and rules-by those who pass/hand down judgement. Does it mean that I agree with the laws, and the interpretation thereof, and actions of the nation, just because I have not been arrested? Certainly not. Just because I have not been arrested, does it mean that I understand all of our laws, rules, and regulations? Nope. I still question them everyday-and at this point and time in our government, I don't feel that I can make much of a difference, therefore it bothers me less and less. But I still question/B***h about it on occassion. Perhaps part of the reason I am here, though not in force, is that I can help people(regardless in how small a way) and that if I have a concern about the way things happen, that someone will listen and take the concern seriously. Therefore I have made a difference.
The fact that I've not had any issues tells me that they are of common sense and civility. I agree with you on this point.
If you don't like it here then simply play somewhere else.
I think as adults that we can accept constructive criticism, that is how we, as individuals, grow and become better. Entities (coporations, governments, and even internet sites) should choose to be no different, as they are ran/directed by people; they can grow, and become better, if they listen to constructive input. To just say "like it or lump it" (indirectly) is kind of a childish and thoughtless way to address an issue, and prevents growth. (I am not addressing this to you, please keep in mind. I am speaking generally.)
Agreed. I think constructive input is the key phrase. I had a boss that used to say, "complaining is just xxxxxxxx unless you do something about it". I guess my point was just this. If you see a problem try to fix it, deal with it, or move on. It is exactly this "bully attitude" (not calling you a bully), that results in ineffectiveness and alienation. What makes this place works is its members. If their concerns is not, at least, taken into consideration, then no one will learn anything, and the site will not be able to grow.
If you choose to stay then follow the rules. Not only those of the TOS, but of the basic rules we learn in kindergarten...play nice!! In principle, I agree with this, but hopefully, we are able to think more critically now than when we were in kindergarten. Think of the ignorance if no one questioned anything.
Just a simple way to explain my last response. I tell my six year old when she has a playground issue, that she needs to work though the problem, use her manners and come up with a solution. In other words - play nice. Joe, in an ideal world we would be able to reason our way out of everything, and everyone would be as reasonable as we are, but unfortunately we don't, and they aren't. What will you do when your six year old comes home and tells you that she is being bullied at school. You tell her to play nice- and she responds "But Dad I have treated her very nice". You respond by saying "well use your words and work out your problem", and she says "but Dad I did that too", and you tell her to talk to the teacher, and she responds, "I have tried, but Dad, she tells me not to keep telling on my classmates." The next day your daughter comes home with a black eye. Do you simply tell her to "deal with it"? I don't think you would do that. My guess is that you would be on your way to the principal, and if the problem fell on deaf ears there (and he told you to "get over it" or to "deal with it", you would be livid. Am I close here or not? Would you all of a sudden pull your daughter out of a school where she has made friends, and has otherwise been a great place for her to be? My point in all of this is that people want to be here, for whatever reason. But they want to be respected while they are here. If they have a concern, they do not want to be ignored, or told "get over it" or "like it or lump it". This place is small enough that we shouldn't have to give someone a black eye, and send them on their way. Regards Joe, Bill
Originally Posted by Ken Salisbury
Lock the thread, Ken.
If am I am not mistaken, this is a discussion forum. Seems everybody has contributed in some way. Most of it was "yeah, baby, keep on keeping on", backslapping.
In case you haven't gotten the point yet, it is that clear example of the extreme exaggeration of backslapping that goes on here that many just can't hack.
Every member here will claim they are a grown, mature adult. That kind of conduct doesn't go on in normal everyday activities among adults.
Once again, I will throw my vote in that there is way too much moderation.
Carry on.
Ken, this reply insults the intelligence of every poster here.Originally Posted by Ken Salisbury
The thing you linked to was the original SawStop/CPSC thread started by Marvin Keys, the one that started in General Woodworking, got locked and moved into Off-Topic.
The thread I was clearly referring to was the meta-thread, the thread started in Off-Topic by Rob Bodenschatz about the locking of the aforementioned thread, a thread that has in fact been deleted.
In fact, the very next post after I asked if the thread had disappeared into the ether was from Rob; he wrote: "Yes. I received notification (I assume as the original poster) that the thread was removed." And I acknowledged that reply. See for yourself: Posts #40, 41 and 42 in this very thread.
The correct answer is thus "yes, it was deleted." Rob has the notification to prove it.
You can't honestly believe that deleting a thread means everyone forgets it existed, can you?
Well Ken, you certainly missed my point. I didn't say that you acted like a 4 year old with self esteem problems. My post was meant to convey that the entire board has that overall feel about it. In fact there is a feel that if your post isn't of the "backslapping, I'm so proud that you successfully tapped a 1/4x20 screw thread on your first try, that little boo boo scratch looks like it hurts" variety then you get placed on someones "ignore list". The whole board is like reading a Victorian novel...
Ken: Would you like some tea?
John: Yes, very much, please.
Ken: Sugar?
John: After you.
Ken: No after you.
John: No, I insist, after you.
Ken: Certainly.
John: Very nicely placed.
Ken: Thank you so very much but, it was nothing.
Everyone else who is a member: Most certainly it was something. Very skillfully done, if I must say so myself.
Blah, blah, blah until you're fighting off sleep....and if someone were to post:
What's the big deal all he did was put a spoon of sugar in his tea?
Then the thread gets edited, locked or deleted, everyone else is offended and the dissenting poster is shunned.
Originally Posted by Lee DeRaud
That forum is not so bad. Although... I only read the first 5 posts.
Last edited by Ken Salisbury; 08-20-2006 at 8:17 PM. Reason: direct link to another public forum - TOS violation