Table Saw Debate

[Travis Lavallee]

Hey creekers,

Just want to get an opinion on which saw you would prefer:

General International 50-260 for ~$1,900 (w/o ext. table)
or
Steel City 35618 for $1,950 (w/ ext. table and legs)

Both have similar specs., but Steel City has 5 year warranty.

Also, when wiring in, am I correct to assume a 2 wire 220 V supply?

Thanks

[Mark Rios]

Steel City

[Nancy Laird]

Hi, there are really a lot of differences in table saws, and a lot that most of the "experts" will not talk about.

To begin with you need to know that I make my living recommending and selling and using woodworking machines. That said here is my .02.

First you need to understand why a left tilt table saw was built, and that has nothing to do with safety. The left tilt table saw was invented so that there would not be a lot of tearout on the outside of a mitre cut.

Second, you need a really good fence and a Beismeyer is the original and in my opinion the best.

Third, the real difference is in the way the blade stacks on the arbor of the saw. On a left tilt the blade stacks from the left to the right. That means that when you change the blade from, say, a thin kerf to a regular kerf to a dado blade, that the distance from the right side of the blade to the fence, without moving the fence, changes, meaning that the tape measure is not accurate with different blades. On a right tilt the blade stacks from the right to the left and when changing blades, say, from a thin kerf to a regular kerf to a dado blade the distance from the right side of the blade to the fence, without moving the fence, stays tha same, making the tape measure a useful item.

Fourth, safety on a table saw, or any other piece of equipment, is a matter of the operator, not the machine. My point is that if the operator does something not smart, like trying to rip a warped twisted board then the machine will do somethine stupid like throwing it back at you (generic you). The one thing that I can tell anyone is that if your mind and body are not in the same spot at the same time while doing woodworking you will have an accident.

My perference is a right tilt Delta Unisaw with a Beismeyer fence. I have owned and used mine for 13 years with no problems. trouble, or kickbacks.

I'd get the Steel City right tilt 50" tablesaw.

If you care to talk to me some more please feel free to PM me.

David

[Norman Hitt]

Well, discussing tablesaws and especially left tilt vs right tilt is usually comparable to discussing religion or politics, so I guess to keep things even, I will try to make some representation for the left tilt crowd.

I have used both left tilt and right tilt saws, (many of each over the last 55 + years) and have owned several saws, but just never liked a right tilt well enough to buy one. One thing I don't like about a right tilt saw is that you have to move the fence over to the left side of the saw to keep from "Trapping" the piece between the sawblade and the fence when doing a Mitre cut, and unfortunately, I have Rarely found, Including my Biesemeyer Commercial fence (which I love dearly), a fence who's sides are exactly parallel to each other, and it takes a lot more time to adjust the fence parallel to the blade for this setup, and then readjust it again when you put it back to the other side, than it does to compensate for the error in the fence rail's "MeasuringTape" when changing from one blade kerf width to another or installing a dado.

To compensate for a different kerf width blade, OR a dado blade, I simply keep an 18" long by 4" wide piece of MDF that I lay against the blade and then move the fence up against the MDF and lock the fence. I then place a short piece of masking or electrical tape across the cursor fitting so that one edge is exactly above the 4" mark on the tape and that edge becomes my cursor for as long as I have that blade/dado setup in the saw. Recalibrating when returning to the original blade setup........Peel Off the Tape.

With all that said, I love my PM 66 that I bought new 16 or 17 years ago, but there are several excellent cabinet saws available these days, and any of them would probably serve you well. IF "I" were in the market at this time, I personally, would probably give a hard look at the new PM 2000, because of it's riving knife, new internal dust collection shroud and flex hose, new single flat wide belt and pulleys, and built in mobility system that you just crank down the wheels and roll it away, but most likely my PM 66 will still be going strong when I'm not.

I have no personal experience with either of the saws you mention, but my suggestion would be to go look in person at those and other saws in the category or your price range and climb all over each of them, and then pick your preference. I will also say that left tilt/right tilt is also a personal preference thing, and either will work as long as you understand the shortcomings/safety considerations of each and how to compensate for them, so pick what "Feels Right to YOU", not to me, or anyone else, because we're not the ones that will be using it.

Good luck, and have fun with your shopping, and be sure to let us all know what you get.

[scott spencer]

Tough call between those two.... I've had good dealings with both companies via a GI contractor saw, and through my Orion made 22124. I'm intrigued by the new offering from Steel City and it's added features, but I'd also be hesitant b/c it's so new. The 5 year warranty should offer some comfort in that regard though...

The GI is a more proven machine...

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

I am left handed so a left tilt (blade tilts off to my right hand side) is my prefence. The issue about stacking & tilt is interesting. But, my reasons for tilt preference are more about safety and comfort. I like the left tilt because I stand with the blade on my right when I cross cut. This means that when I lay the blade over it's leaning away from me and I like that way better than having it leaning into the fence.

The Steel city seems to have a nice Bies style fence but I'd prefer a Vega.

Have you had a chance to test run either of these machines??

[Travis Porter]

Very informative. I learned some things I had not considered before. I am not in the market for a saw, but it brought about points I never really knew.

[richard poitras]

I think steel city has 20% off a lot of there tools right now , might be something to think about when buying?

[Mike Canaris]

If I would spend that much ,I would go for the real mcCoy and get myself a General 350/650...made right here in NA. IT will proabably cost you a few hunnerd more...but you will have a saw that your grandkids will pass down to thiers.

[Frank Fusco]

I love it (NOT) when experts debate. Both sides are right even though they differ. That leaves us ordinary folks in the middle scratching our heads. I wish I understood what Nancy was saying with the stacking and tape measurements not being the same. A measurement is a measurement is a measurement. Even though I'm pretty sceptical of many things, I often yield to the choices of the many. e.g. I believe there is a reason why 96% of computer operating systems are MS. On that basis, I won't select one that is used by only 2%. With table saws, the overwhelming majority seem to be left-tilt. When/if I purchase a high dollar TS, it will be left-tilt. And I know when I measure three inches with my tape measure, it will still be three inches the next time I use that tape measure. Right?

[scott spencer]

I love it (NOT) when experts debate. Both sides are right even though they differ. That leaves us ordinary folks in the middle scratching our heads. I wish I understood what Nancy was saying with the stacking and tape measurements not being the same. A measurement is a measurement is a measurement. Even though I'm pretty sceptical of many things, I often yield to the choices of the many. e.g. I believe there is a reason why 96% of computer operating systems are MS. On that basis, I won't select one that is used by only 2%. With table saws, the overwhelming majority seem to be left-tilt. When/if I purchase a high dollar TS, it will be left-tilt. And I know when I measure three inches with my tape measure, it will still be three inches the next time I use that tape measure. Right?

Hi Frank - Nancy was refering to the fixed measuring tape on the front rail of a TS fence. That tape is referenced to zero at the farthest right edge of the blade for most applications. On a LT saw, if the blade thickness changes it skews the zero setting and either needs to be readjusted to zero by moving the cursor, shimmed, or a separate measuring tape used. On a RT saw the thickness of blade does not skew that setting.

That said, I never saw it as a very big concern. I tend to use the same thickness of blades or use a separate tape measure if I change blade thickness. There are other differences that I didn't notice mentioned that favor the left tilt....on a RT saw the orientation of the arbor nut thread is reversed, and lends itself to tightening the nut with my left hand. It's a small issue to some, but that aspect of my RT saw drove me nuts....a LT saw has the threads in a normal orientation and is easily tightened with my right hand...my dominant hand....the "righty tighty" rule applies! I found that feature to outweight the more minor inconvenience of blade thickness changes skewing the zero reference, but it's really a matter of preference IMO....there's no right or wrong decision. I give the RT/LT debate very little weight in a TS buying decision, and would not let it kill an otherwise great deal on nice saw.

[Frank Fusco]

Hi Frank - Nancy was refering to the fixed measuring tape on the front rail of a TS fence. That tape is referenced to zero at the farthest right edge of the blade for most applications. On a LT saw, if the blade thickness changes it skews the zero setting and either needs to be readjusted to zero by moving the cursor, shimmed, or a separate measuring tape used. On a RT saw the thickness of blade does not skew that setting.

That said, I never saw it as a very big concern. I tend to use the same thickness of blades or use a separate tape measure if I change blade thickness. There are other differences that I didn't notice mentioned that favor the left tilt....on a RT saw the orientation of the arbor nut thread is reversed, and lends itself to tightening the nut with my left hand. It's a small issue to some, but that aspect of my RT saw drove me nuts....a LT saw has the threads in a normal orientation and is easily tightened with my right hand...my dominant hand....the "righty tighty" rule applies! I found that feature to outweight the more minor inconvenience of blade thickness changes skewing the zero reference, but it's really a matter of preference IMO....there's no right or wrong decision. I give the RT/LT debate very little weight in a TS buying decision, and would not let it kill an otherwise great deal on nice saw.

OK, that makes sense. No problem for me. I simply don't trust the fixed tapes on equipment for close work. I consider them only 'aproximate' and make careful measurements for all other work.

[Kirk (KC) Constable]

Are the overwhelming majority really left tilt? I've used both, and prefer a right tilt...for no valid reason I can think of. Is the SawStop a lefty? If so, my next one will be left.

KC

[Bob Dodge]

I'm a "left-tilt" guy. Mainly because beveling a narrow work-piece strikes me as being safer with the blade tilted away from the fence. Mind you, that's pretty flexible anyway. You can always place a right-tilt saw's fence to the left of the blade and do exactly the same thing. Overall though, I prefer left tilt, but I'm happy with either one.

[Mike Null]

After more than 30 years with a left tilt I bought a right tilt mainly for the fence upgrade.

I'll take left tilt any time--more comfortable and--my perception--safer.