Shop tour # 8 Sliding Table Saw

[Joe Mioux]

You have a great life!

Now I know why you responded to my slider v sawstop thread the way you did. How did you decide on this saw v other comparable models?

Lou, like Bruce Page stated you have a great shop.

thanks for letting us take a peak.

Joe

[Geoff Barry]

Lou,

Forgive me if you've discussed this elsewhere, but I'd be curious about your two-week learning curve. Paul Cresti had a pretty comprehensive thread about how he used his slider for ripping, but I'm still curious about adapting "solid wood work", for lack of a better term, to a slider, which I still think of as a panel making machine.

The reason I ask is that I'm coming to the end of my first table saw, a BT3100. Now, don't get me wrong, the BT3100 is no slider. However, if you can master the dark art of taking the give out of the sliding "table", it's pretty nifty. I've gotten used to clamping jigs on the table and running things by the blade. It's been a good saw for me, but all things come to an end, and after 4 years, I've been thinking about moving up to a cabinet saw. Some of the lower end sliders might be conceivable, though. I've been building solid wood furniture as a hobby (mainly arts & crafts style so far), and my concern has been how useful a slider would be for that type of work. Obviously, you felt that it was the right move -- you mention accuracy, and the ability to do things that are difficult on a cabinet saw. I'd be interested in a little more on that latter point

[Jim Becker]

Geoff, one of the biggies for transition to a slider is to get comfortable with clamping a board on the wagon for the rip cut as well as rethinking things that you might have used miter slots for in the past. Further, the safety factor goes up big-time as your hands and body are nowhere near the blade and the material is securly fastened to the machine. It just takes getting used to...processes are different, not difficult...and given that we humans are creatures of habit, it's largely a matter of "re-training" yourself.

As Paul has shown (as well as Sam Blasco and his wonderful jigs and adapters) there really isn't anything you can't accomplish with these saws.

Todd hinted that I'm considering one of these machines "as we speak"...and I work almost exclusively in solid woods. (Some of the cabinetry for our addition will be an exception to that for obvious reasons) I'm convinced that the benefits are great and that was reinforced by reading the piece by Mark Duginski that Todd posted about the other day. (It's in an insert that came with Woodshop News this week, too)

[Alan Turner]

Lou,
Great new toy. What was it about the old Oliver that you did not care for? When I was putting together my wish list for the new teaching studio, it was that same Oliver which I initially wanted, but ultimately decided that for reasons of safety, I really had no choice and went with the Sawstsop.
It is the only major "new" tool at PFW.

[lou sansone]

You have a great life!

Now I know why you responded to my slider v sawstop thread the way you did. How did you decide on this saw v other comparable models?

Lou, like Bruce Page stated you have a great shop.

thanks for letting us take a peak.

Joe

hi Joe
Once I had decided on a slider, vs a cabinet saw ( you name the type ) then it was a process of looking at the available models. There are several different manufactures of sliders for one to look at. At the top is martin and altendorf. Since this was my first slider, I wanted to be cautious with money and set a limit that excluded them. My next choice was really between 2 different mfgs. ( SCMI and Felder Groupe ). There are several other good mfgs out there like griggio, panhans, casadei ( I did actually also look at a casadei because I own their 24 " planer which I think is as good as any Italian machine out there ), robland, knapp and a few others.
SCMI seemed to me to be market dominate with lots of support if need be ( there has been no need yet, but with more sophisticated saws there probably would ). Felder also makes a great saw and I was on the fence with them. In the end, when I looked at a lot of the design features and the feel of the machine, I felt more comfortable with scmi's products.

Looking back now I have no regrets on my choice. If I was processing tons of sheet stock all day long, I would definitely buy a much heavier scmi or move right over to the German or Austrian machines ( kappa series looks to be quite well designed ).

best wishes

[Jim Dunn]

Lou that is so impressive. I have to make an observation though. White clashes with all the other greens and grays in your shop.
Also looks like an over arm is needed for DC. Will one work with that type of saw?

[Jim Becker]

Also looks like an over arm is needed for DC. Will one work with that type of saw?

There is a dust collection guard that attaches to the top of the riving knive for through cuts that comes with the saw. Lou doesn't have it attached in these pictures. An optional overarm arrangement is also available.

[Greg Hairston]

Lou,
I actually have the slider ledge on my saw. I was not thrilled with the T slot that my Minimax CU 350 combo had after looking at the bigger machines. It looks like your crosscut table is similar to my 350 combo. I believe my SCMI 350 and the 400 have the same slider. The big difference is the 400 has all the bells and whistles where the stock 350 is a manual machine.... However there is a newer 350 that appears to be a more economical machine than mine. Maybe they made some changes this last year. I will post some pics later to confirm we are talking apples to apples. The one thing on my 350 is that you can not adjust the crosscut table and fence for angled cuts. For this you use the miter gauge which is very very stout and capable of handleing almost any task.

My comparison of the SCMI 350 and the Felder was that the SCMI seemed to be a bit beefier than the Felder but the Felder had a lot more features (these comparisons were done at machines around the same price point. Not the Kappa 400 which would compare to the SCMI 400). Both great machines and anyone would do well to own either. You may remember when we talked on the phone you pointed out the trunion issue. That is one of the things that made me go Italian vs German. The trunion on my saw is very beefy and well designed. The Felders pin system is also well designed but has not yet passed the test of Time....

Greg

[lou sansone]

Lou,
Great new toy. What was it about the old Oliver that you did not care for? When I was putting together my wish list for the new teaching studio, it was that same Oliver which I initially wanted, but ultimately decided that for reasons of safety, I really had no choice and went with the Sawstsop.
It is the only major "new" tool at PFW.

Hi Alan

the oliver 260 D is an impressive machine to say the least. I think that the oliver 88 is probably a more useful saw ( with the sliding table ). one of the down sides of the 260 is the raise and lower action. because the blade assembly is on a massive turret, the blades rise up close to you ( leading edge of the saw ) and then lower back down on the front edge of the saw. this means that the blade's cutting point really moves around when you have the blade at various heights. this may not make sense to you, but that is the best I can explain it.
the other reason I bought the saw was for the sliding table. the stroke on it is short and it was one of the reasons that I finally realized a long slider is the only type of slider to have. a short stroke slider is only good for very limited cutting situations.
finally, because it is direct drive it is extremely smooth running, but you need to run a 16" blade on it. I have to say it was sort of like running a sawmill with that thing whizzing around.

the SS is a great saw and If I were you I would have one. But I would also think about a slider as well. you got the room in that great mill building you're in.

best wishes and I hope to take a class next spring from you
Lou

ps photos of the 260 d ...color is off

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?t=27701

[Gary Curtis]

Lou, I went through the same agonizing search in 2005 and ended up with General's sliding table. Though it has an outrigger, the table only comes to within 8" of the blade, so ripping is limited.

What did your machine cost? What is the total weight of the equipment?

Gary Curtis
California

[Mark Hubler]

Here is a copy of the technomax brochure for the S315 and S350 saws http://www.lekime.be/PDF/MiniMax%20S...%20-%20ENG.pdf

I saw this link over at Woodnet, from a posting about sliding saws

[Jim Becker]

Gary, you can see pricing on the S315WS on the Mini Max web site. The weight is a little over 1600 lbs.

[Bill Simmeth]

one of the down sides of the 260 is the raise and lower action. because the blade assembly is on a massive turret, the blades rise up close to you ( leading edge of the saw ) and then lower back down on the front edge of the saw. this means that the blade's cutting point really moves around when you have the blade at various heights.

Like any new tool, this nuance of the 260D does take a little time to adapt to. However, having adapted to it, I find it to be a major advantage of the saw. When doing fine cross-cut work, I find having the blade toward the front of the saw is a real plus. Combined with the slider, it gives me a greater feeling of control over the cut and better visibility for my aging eyes. When working panels, placing the blade toward the rear of the table allows me to take advantage of the increased table area to support the piece before it encounters the blade. Finally, if I really want the blade in the center of the table I simply rotate the turret to switch from the 16" WW2 to the 12" WW2. Voilà, same blade height moved toward the table's center.

[Mark Singer]

Lou,
That is a great machine! It complements your other machines well! I have the TechnoMax elite S jointer / planer/mortiser and it is strong in all the areas...Great choice!

[glenn bradley]

Uh-oh, Jim's gone poetic on us! Very nice rig Lou and thanks for the many pics.