group make/buy plane iron & wooden plane contest anyone?

[Steve Dewey]

Being very frustrated trying to flatten a couple old Stanley planes to get them in shape, I thought I either need to buy a new LN or LV or try a making a woodie. I just finished reading Finck's book & am eager to start. After paying $40 for a hock blade at lee valley, I thought, there has to be a cheaper way for folks wanting to try these out.

I read a post here about a member who's club made their own irons. I'm proposing we do the same here at SMC to let folks experiment with building their own planes.

I'm willing to buy the raw material & handle distribution. Anybody here have the ability to machine the stock (cut to length & rough bevel) and/or heat treat in exchange for a few free plane irons? I'd propose we do 1/4 thick O1 steel (less expensive) in a couple widths w/o chipbreakers to keep it simple and maybe even some necked down versions for dado or moulding planes.

I'm thinking 3/4 & 1-1/4, (necked down for dado / moulding plane) 1-1/2, 1-3/4 and 2" straight widths. Raw materials would range from $3 to $6 per iron (assuming 5" length). Full costs to be calculated before project begins.

Assuming folks are intereted in the group make/buy, I figure it's only appropriate that we have a competition to see who's plane is best. Simple rules - 2 catagories - Rookie plane makers (never done one before) & everybody else. Multipal prizes per catagory - most exotic wood, funkiest shape, best shavings completely handmade (no electrons expended) etc. (looking for suggestions here)

Entries judged by an "impartial" panel. Winners to get bragging rights and maybe a plaque of some kind.

So, what do y'all think? what size(s) would you be interested in?

Regards

[Zahid Naqvi]

Steve, I went through the same cycle not too long ago. I have made several woodies, you may find pictures of some here in SMC. Count me in as a participant, but I can't do any machining to save my life. I know there are outfits which can do heat treatment for a fee, but they require a significant sized order to even entertain an offer.
Some fellow at woodcentral started a similar thread a while back. He got a lot of replies, I indicated my participation as well but I never heard back from him. So I don't know what came out of that initiative.

[Lars Thomas]

I'd be interesting in purchasing, but can't help with machining. Lars

[John Goodridge]

I have been planning to try to my hand at plane making. Mainly pontificating and reading so far. How to handle the heat treatment has been a question. I contacted one place local to me (Fort Worth, TX) and they said that they would do small batches. He said the minimum cost for O1 was $85 + a 10% energy surcharge. I do not know how much steel could be done for that minimum batch. My more recent thoughts were to give the heat treatment a shot on my own; but if we can get a group together to reduce the cost, that sounds cool.

I would be interested in participating. Maybe it would blast me from the reading phase to actually doing phase. I do not have access to real equipment for the machining. My plans were to use a hacksaw, grinder and files. I can aid in that more primitive manner.

As for sizes, I would suggest some small sizes as well (1/4" and 1/2"), for plow planes.

[John Schreiber]

I would be interested in a group heat treat for 01 steel if such a thing ever occurred. I've been meaning to make some carving blades, but the heat treating has me scared. For what I'm doing, a hardness on the high side for woodworking of around 60-62 is what I'm hoping for.

[Larry Gelder]

Find a knifemaker and send the blades out when he/she is getting the knive-blades treated.

If you're interested, I'll ask a knifemaker friend if he's willing and how much it'll cost.

[Michael Fross]

My shortlist of projects includes making a wooden smoother. If it's not too much, I'm in. Actually, I'm probably in for 2 or 3....

Michael

[Steve Dewey]

I have a wire e.d.m. at work and have had the same dream for the last few months. Maybe I could arange something here.

Seems a little overkill. If I remember correctly you can work the steel with conventional machines (mill lathe etc.) so long as you do it before heat treat. Might require carbide tooling?

So this brings up another question - should we even bother roughing a bevel? Personally I'd be cleaning it up on a wet grinder (tormek) - I'd think if you used a slow speed grinder w/ friable wheel & were careful not to overheat it, we could grind our own bevels from straight cut blanks. I'll do some homework...

Seems that small pottery kilns can be adapted for our purpose (and can be bought used for about the same as a new lie nielson bench) - I'm keeping my eye out for one. Perhaps I could "fill the gap" - offer small lot services for a modest price (to recoup the capital investment)

[Andrew Homan]

I just got some irons from a similar project. A College of the Redwoods grad put out the offer to have a batch of irons heat-treated, since at a certain volume it made sense to get a bunch of people in on it and save money. People sent him irons that they cut, or he cut them (I had him do this for me). He used Starrett 01, and I got 4 irons, each 1/4" thick x 1 3/4" wide, for a total, including shipping, of about $7 each, so the savings were really substantial. These were professionally heat-treated. I'm going to build some planes this winter with a friend.
-Andy

[Zahid Naqvi]

Looks like if Andrew can convince his friend to join SMC we'll be in good shape.

[Chuck Saunders]

Count me in. You would probably want a starter bevel just to keep from grinding a lot of hardened steel. I would think that cutting the bevel with a n abrasive chopsaw would work quite well and be quick. I can help cut if need be.
Chuck

[Michael Fross]

Count me in. You would probably want a starter bevel just to keep from grinding a lot of hardened steel. I would think that cutting the bevel with a n abrasive chopsaw would work quite well and be quick. I can help cut if need be.
Chuck

I agree. A rough bevel would be very good, and fairly easy to grind prior to head treating. Not having a grinder (although this might be an excuse to pick one up), it would take a long time to create one on the waterstones!

Actually, a slow speed grinder would be on my "grinders to buy" list prior to a normal one.

Michael

[Bob Hallowell]

I would be in for a blade or 3 myself!!

Bob

[Mike Swindell]

I'm surprised no one has looked at the knife making forums for heat treating. There are lots of knifemakers using a propane/MAPP powered forge using an old Freon tank and fire brick.

http://ronreil.abana.org/minifor1.shtml

http://webpages.charter.net/smith975...orge/forge.htm

http://www.hybridburners.com/#Burners

http://www.geocities.com/zoellerforge/miniforge.html

Find an A/C shop that has surplus tanks laying around, fire brick can be had in many places. I think the forge sites sell the fireproof wool for lining the tanks or there's always that famous auction site.

[Steve Dewey]

Those forges would certainly do the job, although probably need a bit more skill to operate than an electric oven... Also seems difficult to treat more than 1 blade at a time.

I posted a question on the home shop machinist board. Feedback so far is that O1 is workable with normal tooling (bandsaw, hacksaw, or even file) - ie carbide not required before heat treating. As far as the heat treat, the recommendation was to heat it with a propane torch and quench in a bucket of hydraulic oil. Probably wouldn't be able to heat the entire blade at the same time, but only the first 1" of the cuting edge is what we care about. I'm waiting for an answer if using an abrasive chop saw has any detrimental effects (due to the heat).

A trial run may be in order. Maybe I'll buy a length of stock, chop it up, rough the bevel, treat them with a torch & temper in my wife's oven (maybe I should buy a yard sale toaster oven for that job ) I'd be happy to mail some samples out for evaluation. Is 1 1/2" a good "trial size"?