TS vs Rail System in a hobby shop

[Charles Wilson]

I am not trolling but am asking a serious question.

I would like to buy a TS but am not sure if I can justify the purchase (I am sure you have seen several of my posts about me flip/flopping). Two reasons - safety and safety.

If I do purchase a TS, I think that I am waiting for the SawStop Contractor to come out.

In the mean time, pick your rail system (EZ or FESTOOL) and what can that not do that a TS can do (in a hobby shop)? It seems to me that a rail system can do a variety of things like ultra thin cuts, crosscuts, rips, dados, rabbets, repeated cuts (repeaters on the EZ) and miters.

Again, I am not trying to start problems but am really curious as I am new to WW.

Be gentle.

Regards,
Chuck

[Dave Falkenstein]

There have been lots of discussions along these lines in the past. To find many of them click on Search and use "Google Sawmill Creek". Enter something like "table saw and (ez or festool). You will get about 7 pages of search hits in Sawmill Creek alone. Happy reading.

[Pete Brown]

When you say dados, I assume you're talking about using a router. I wouldn't want to use a circular saw for that.

I haven't used Dino's system, but most rail systems are not as accurate for a rip cut as a table saw. Dino's looks promising, though. For other stopped cuts, you can use the Festool system and rails with their MFT or you can go with the EZ system. I would stay away from the ones outside of those two.

I have the Festool TS with rails and a table saw. I use them both, but that may simply be because I have them both. I use my festool for sheet goods. I use my table saw for anything I can safely move across my saw table.

I have the Incra fence on my tablesaw, so I get real accuracy and repeatability with that.

I don't have a tenoning jig, but that is something the table saw can do that the circular saw cannot.

As far as safety goes, well, I've had more close calls with my old (crappy) circular saw than I ever had with a table saw. That saw didn't have enough juice and would bind up and kick back. I had one incident of kickback on my tablesaw (resulting in a bruise on my hip), and have never had my fingers close enough to the blade to get cut.

Safety is good, though, and you only want to use tools you feel safe using. I just don't want you to think that the rail systems are inherently safer, because (IMHO) they are not. Either tool with proper technique can be safe, and either tool with improper technique can be quite dangerous.

Pete

[Jim C Bradley]

Hi Charles,
I have never had a problem with kick-back with the TS. I have had with the rails. I am VERY safety aware. I have seen too many injuries from stupidity. My stupidity would be that the rail system is awkward and I am much more apt to get my body or the material into a wierd position.
With the TS I am in basically the same position and that position is comfortable, secure and keeps my hands well away from the blade. A twitch of my knee cuts the power. I am never in line with the blade or any work approaching the blade.
I obey the safety rules that previous, sorry, people say we should obey.
Enjoy,
Jim Bradley

[russ bransford]

Charles,
You're getting vague and generic answers. Any search at this point will only add to your confusion. You need specifics. If I can read between the lines, it seems that you have narrowed your search to the EZ with its capabilities of replacing a TS, and a new Sawstop not yet on the market.

From here just try emailing an EZ owner and a Sawstop owner to get answers to direct questions. With EZ and Sawstop adding new items to their lines it will be hard to search in the past to look for companies inventing new solutions today.

RB

[David Weaver]

I had the same question when I was upgrading my TS - either to not upgrade it if I could get a good rail system, or to upgrade it and get the rail system.

I don't use a TS that much for heavy goods and I usually cut sheet goods on it, and I have experienced nasty kickback, so that was an influence.

I settled on getting a Delta enclosed hybrid saw (36-717), and I have enough left over to still get a rail system - I just haven't decided if I'll spend the money for the festool system or go with the EZ smart system instead.

I can't vouch for the saw that I got because I haven't set it up fully yet, but there are too many things I like to do on a TS that I don't want to relearn on a rail system. I do, however, want the rail system to cut 4x8 panels so I'm not forced to loaf them around in the garage.

I obviously can't make recommendations because I'm in the same position as you, but I can offer my point of view and which direction I went.

[Jim Becker]

Guided system is great for many things, especially working sheet goods, etc. The TS is a better choice for fine work on small things with a sled, IMHO. The ideal hobbyist shop, in my mine, would have both...a decent table saw and a guided saw system. Granted some of the new products/jigs narrow the gap, but I wouldn't want to be dependent on just a guided system or just a table saw in the long run.

[Pete Brown]

Charles,
You're getting vague and generic answers. Any search at this point will only add to your confusion. You need specifics. If I can read between the lines, it seems that you have narrowed your search to the EZ with its capabilities of replacing a TS, and a new Sawstop not yet on the market.

From here just try emailing an EZ owner and a Sawstop owner to get answers to direct questions. With EZ and Sawstop adding new items to their lines it will be hard to search in the past to look for companies inventing new solutions today.

RB

He also mentioned Festool. I replied as a Festool owner. If you're talking safety, I think the riving knife in the Festool saw and the completely retracting blade both deserve some mention. I still stand by my comment that neither rail systems nor special table saws are inherently "safe"

Specifics are hard to come by without getting a lot of bias in there, especially when someone has invested a chunk of money (large or small) in a system.

Perhaps some information about what type of work will be done will help narrow down the responses.

Pete

[russ bransford]

Pete,
This is why I recommended that Charles contact someone directly."I still stand by my comment that neither rail systems nor special table saws are inherently "safe"."(pete) You have just commented on the shortcomings of your 'rail' system. Charles obviously needs the safety and versatility that the newer systems offer.

RB

[Glenn Clabo]

Chuck,
It's a different mindset that I, along with most people who grew up with table saws, still have a hard time envisioning life without one. However, I am finding I use a TS less and less since I got the EZ system.
To be more specific...I am in the middle of a bathroom redo...built a faceframe built-in vanity...closet...etc. The TS has not been lit off yet. While using sheet goods and rough cherry I have used some handtools, a router, planer, jointer, and circular saw. I haven't built the doors or drawer faces yet...but I don't see any reason to use a TS for them either.
Of course...to each their own...and I really would have a hard time getting rid of my TS. After all I've kept my router table for years...and haven't used it since I got the WoodRat.

[Andrew Williams]

I make my own straight-lining guides for the circular saw or router. Use MDF since you can get a dead-flat factory edge if you get a good piece. Without a table saw it's tough to rip a piece to proper width, but with two pieces of MDF you could use one for the initial rip fence. I make them with hardboard underneath to support the base of the circular saw all the way to the kerf line. Just pass the saw through once to cut the hardboard flush. Then when you use the guide system, just align to hardboard edge with your cut line.

http://sawmillcreek.org/attachment.p...3&d=1176051406

that is a pic of my workbench with one of these straight-lining jigs up against the wall. Pretty simple but they work well.

[Randal Stevenson]

If all your doing is ripping/crosscutting sheet goods, a sawboard would do for you.

The rails systems do give much more benefit. The issue of the thickness of the wood is being addressed with different saw options in both systems.

As for safety, your only as safe as the operator. Dino has posted a picture of something I still consider unsafe. To display how the saw follows the rails, he holds one up and cuts along it. The rail isn't clamped down, and all one would have to do is trip (or for those of you with kids, have one of them, be a kid and ignore your rules, and run in and grab you) and something bad could happen.

I too am not ready to give up my other equipment, due to already having it (it's paid for), and others belief's, it's unsafe (if I have something I consider unsafe, why would I pass it on?) But for either the home hobbiest/diy'er or someone with as small as shop as I have (6' ceiling), I can see a guide system replacing 90% of ones needs.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

I think each has it's own intrinsic advantages with a lot of crossover between both. A well supplied shop will have both. JMHO

[skip coyne]

own both , havent used the tablesaw at all since I got the EZ (about a year )

not quite ready to get rid of TS

[Barry Anderson]

I've a small shop, too ... and I find that I need both. The saw with the rail system (I've a Festool TS55) comes in handy for cutting down sheet goods and cutting longer boards to shorter stock for easy handling in my smallish shop (12'x21'). HOWEVER, I really need the table saw for cutting smaller parts. The circular saw is useless on these. It's pretty hard to cut a piece of 6"x4" stock on the rail system. Also, joinery cuts are the exclusive domain of the table saw. If you feel you won't need a TS ... don't get one. When you find yourself in a corner, you can get one of the smaller table top saws made by Bosch or Dewalt to get yourself through.

I don't feel that the TS is any more dangerous than my circular saw. Every tool takes attention when you use it to avoid injury. Don't feel that you can make your shop safer by buying tools which do not require diligence in their use. There are none. I've injured myself with my drill on several occasions. It's for people like me that they put instructions on a ladder.

Barry in WV