Arrgh! Sprinkler System Requirement

[Karl Laustrup]

WOW! Jim, it's a good thing I didn't have to go through what you're going through to build. I'd be dead or in jail facing homicide charges.

It just doesn't make sense that they are making sprinklers a mandatory part of your addition. And at this late date? Smacks of whoever thinking that if we spring this on him too early, he'll take us to court.

While sprinklers are a great tool to help fight fires, many great thoughts have been brought up here, as to why they shouldn't be in individual homes. Is the township going to phase out their VFD?

Here's a thought though Jim. As you stated there are some high $$$$ homes built that didn't have to have these sprinklers. I'd start investigating and while you may not have the time right now to do anything about these sprinklers, perhaps in the future you could sue to recoup the money spent on installation and maintenance.

Hang in there and keep us updated.

Karl

[Jeffrey Makiel]

I've recently been somewhat sickened by local building officials too.

Our secretary from work retired to help take care of her father, mother and uncle. All three were in their 90's and were wheelchair confined. So, she needed a deck on her house with a wheelchair ramp. I volunteered to do the drawings and help obtain the permit. I was reminded that the ramp has certain slope requirements, however they did not know what they were! It didn't matter since I did but I didn't want show any hint of arrogance.

Long story short. It took almost 8 months to get a simple permit for a 20x15 square deck and a ramp. First, the set back was off by 4" on a 2 acre property, then the framing was not up to their spec although it surpassed the requirements in standard framing charts, and then there was just common delay. The drawing was done in a professional format and any simple calculations that were required were done by an engineer.

Well, she finally got the permit. They did not want to issue a permit unless somebody shows them a builders license. They were concerned that a contractor was going to do the work instead of family and friends. They told us that we need a permit even when hiring landscapers to install flowers, and the landscaper must be licensed! So much for hiring neighborhood kids.

Unfortunately, her mom had passed away during this process. I felt so angry and sad for her loss. She probably would have enjoyed being on the deck in the little time she had left. And, as I looked around her neighborhood, all I see are new big box developments popping up at an alarming pace. How did these builders go thru all this headache while building an entire house let alone an entire community?! Somethng stinks.

I certainly see how this could drive small contractors out of business. There comes a point when a homeowner will not pay for these added and unecessary expenses that are passed on to them.

Jim, sorry that my post does not help your situation. However, I am hoping that misery loves company.

-Jeff

[Ben Grunow]

Jim- It might be worth a look at the code to see when the sprinklers became "required" in your area and if they really are at all. Canges to the code only apply to permits issued after the change date. So if your permit is old and they are just telling you now that you need sprinklers, thye could be wrong.

Just a thought.

My town requires that all chimneys be flashed to the flue and that second floor laundry rooms have a pan/drain like a shower. The flashing part we do anyway but the pan in the laundry room is expensive and in reality, if the hoses burst you have bigger problems than a 2" drain can handle. We just do it to avoid a fight and because we know in advance (they have a list of all the things they want that they give you when yo uapply for a permit and no they wont accept a fiberglass pan)

Look into it. No sprinklkers required here by the way.

Only other thought is that there might be an alternative system that would satisfy the code and cost less? Not suer what but it might be worth reading the code carefully.

Good luck

Ben

[Mike Cutler]

(they have a list of all the things they want that they give you when yo uapply for a permit and no they wont accept a fiberglass pan)
Ben

??? Ben What do they require. I've only ever seen fiberglass kits available for this.
I put our laundry on the second floor in '94. There wasn't a requirement for the drain pan at the time unless it was a rental property. I still put it in because it was a prudent, and unlike Jim's situation inexpensive. I tested mine. It took all the water the valves could supply.

[Jim Becker]

Ben, the sprinkler requirement is in a published township ordinance...it's not something that the inspector and fire marshal are making up. Our permit can't be "old"...we don't have it yet. It's going on several months now from the first application due to the "surprises"...

[Michael Morgan]

Jim, My motto has always been to "Always be nice! Until it's time not to be nice" It is definatley time not to be nice Jim. It is a shame that these local townships and municipalities have the power they do or I should say the power they think they have.
A few weeks ago I had a visit from our local code enforcement officer. I have been clearing about 1.5 acres thats in the middle of my 25 acres, some grading and a little cut and fill operation. And built a road from my house to it. Anyway someone called the township because they heard my skidsteer running and a stump grinder. He wanted to know what I was doing and needed to determine what permits were needed. I met with him and he told me I needed a $250.00 grading of lots permit and of course he wouldn't tell me who called. I said No, he said they will fine me if I don't. I said then tell me who called which he wouldn't do. I then told him that according to the US Constitution I have they "right to confront my accuser" I am sure at this point he thought I was a real wacko but he made a complete 180 on the permit thing and asked me if I would just not work to late or start to early. The only reason I want to know who called is so I can un invite them to our July 4th party

[Ted Calver]

Jim,
You have my sympathy. Best I can tell, most folks don't pay a lot of attention to what their local governments are up to. As a result, municipal governments assume more and more power over the people they purport to represent. Lots of ordinance changes slide into place with little or no response to requests for public input. Nobody shows up at public hearings except special interest groups either intent on imposing parochial views on their neighbors, or claiming to represent half the people in the county when they really don't. The average person doesn't realize the amount of control a municipality has over them until they attempt to do something with their land and find out that a bunch of unqualified strangers actually control what they can or can't do. I've actually heard my local fire officials talking about residential sprinklers. I'm sure if they thought they could get away with it they would require them. Until such time as more citizens get involved with local government to inject some common sense into the process and make their voices heard above the sound of the special interests, we should not be surprised at the results.

[Phil Thien]

Whatever you do, you just make sure those sprinkler heads are well insulated and not exposed to freezing temps. This last winter we had some cold snaps (not even real bad ones) and my local library's sprinkler system failed (and I read of several others in our area). The library tried to downplay the damage, but the entire periodical section was damaged.

[Ben Grunow]

We put a vinyl pan (or copper or lead but almost never anymore) with tile set in mud over it. The pan runs up the wall a bit and makes the whole room like a big shower floor. My point is that the water is usually spraying all over the place when a hose lets go so the pan is nice but might not really catch spraying water. Better than no pan though as other types of failures do occur. BTW, my tile man is also named Mike Cutler. Small world.

Jim, I have been in situations where an inspector tries to make us conform to a new code issue that was adopted after the date of issuance of the permit (around here permits can take 8 months and projects sometimes dont start for a couple of years). In these types case, I am only required to adhere to the building code at the time the permit was issued, not the new code.

I was just hoping, for your sake, that your township had just adopted the sprinkler code and you might have made it under the wire.

Can you do any of this yourself and save?

Ben

[Jim Becker]

Can you do any of this yourself and save?

No time for that...I'm already committed to the cabinetry and a few other things that are appropriate for my shop. I have an excellent GC and I'm letting him run with the job. But he's one of the most communicative contractors I've ever met and that also jives with his excellent references. For the sprinkler system, he's not taking his mark-up and also doing all the foot-work. He's doing the same on a few other of the "surprises".

[Bart Leetch]

Jim

A few years back in the county where I grew up the builders & sub-contractors got tough. There were some councilmen that thought they could just run the whole show & proceeded to enact laws that just shut the whole building program down due to all the laws. All the contractors & sub-contractors held a few meetings & did what ever was required & got the people causing all the problems re-called & kicked out of office. Building was the main industry & you just don't shut down the main industry. How ever it was to late for my cousin he owned the largest insulation business in the area & it cause him to lose his business. The big if is if you could get all the people to stand up together & just say no

[Greg Cuetara]

Jim I live up here in Maine and I was looking into building a house in a local community. If I were to build a house in a development then I had to install a sprinkler system but if I were to just buy land then I would not need to install a sprinkler system. The fire marshall said that a sprinkler system should only cost about $1 to $1.50 per square foot. I was looking at building an 1,800 sqft house and I got quotes in at approx. 15k to 20k. It really was a dealbreaker and we decided not to build there. I thought it was so ridiculous that they could determine in a development there were different requirements to build a house. After all was said and done I did find a new system from upnor....i think that is their name.....who builds the sprinkler system right into the cold water system for the house all with the pex tubing so there really is not much more work except to install the sprinkler heads....I would be interested to hear if anyone has used this system. Another comment from the peanut gallery is that I am a Professional Engineer and there are very strict requirements for me to build a structure along with the fact that I need a lot of education and testing. But even after all the experience etc. a great deal of decisions are made by hopefully a high school graduate who is the building inspector and probably thinking more about politics.
Good luck with your addition. I'm sure the additions and suprises will only get worse once construction starts hopefully not though.

[Jim Becker]

Greg, we looked at doing the direct tie to our domestic water supply, but would have to replace our submerged deep well pump with a variable speed unit and it's a real "ching...ching..." expense to do that due to required testing, etc. The system with the storage tank (once the sprinkler guy could identify a tank that could physically fit where we had space to put it...) is much more cost effective. 'Sounds like we're getting a pretty good deal at $7K based on a sq ft calculation relative to that cost you anticipated up in Maine. Our addition happens to be planned at 1850 sq ft.