Wooden Planes anyone?!?

[Scott Post]

I have metal planes and use them, but the basic bench planes I use for 90% of my work are wooden. Cast iron planes are just too darned heavy. Flattening a panel is work enough without having to lift and push a big hunk of metal. I also don't like the front knob on Stanley planes. I always end up resting the meaty part at the base of my thumb on the side of the plane and invariably end up with a blister. Wooden planes are more ergonomic.

I do all my molding profiles with wooden planes because I can make my own left handed planes. Even if I were right handed I'd use wooden molders because they're cheaper than router bits.

[John Meikrantz]

Pam,

I'm curious about the differences in Japanese plane design. What are some of the differences in Japanese vs. western designed planes that make them work so much differently? I have seen some pictures of incredible shavings (12" wide, 6' long, transparent) that have been made with Japanese planes.

Any comments based on your plane making class?

John

[Pam Niedermayer]

Pam,

I'm curious about the differences in Japanese plane design. What are some of the differences in Japanese vs. western designed planes that make them work so much differently? I have seen some pictures of incredible shavings (12" wide, 6' long, transparent) that have been made with Japanese planes...

OK, first I'm going to exclude the Krenov style planes from the discussion because I consider them a student exercise, their glued parts inhibit water movement and the like. They probably work OK in some situations, but I haven't liked the ones I've tried to use, impossible to adjust the irons, etc.

So, that limits the discussion to those western planes that start life with a mortised mouth to compare. First, the soles are flat on western planes; whereas the Japanese planes have only two or three touchpoints that are coplanar, the number varying according to the type of plane, intended use, and sometimes the wood being planed. Second, western planes are typically pushed, Japanese planes typically pulled. Third, western planes tend to be much taller than Japanese planes. Fourth, western planes have much thinner irons, double or single irons, and typically wedged (some ECE planes are an exception to this). Japanese planes have much thicker irons, sometimes with a subblade, but this is unnecessary. Whether with subblade or not, they are held in place by the abutements of the very thick main iron. If there is a subblade, there's usually a brass cross pin to brace the subblade. Fifth, Japanese planes often have what's called a landing on which the bevel rests, this is for handling particularly gnarly grain, but may not be necessary. Sixth, Japanese irons are typically bedded at 38-45°, western planes at 45-60°.

Pam

[Derek Cohen]

I must add my .02

I have several HNT Gordon and Mujingfang planes. These range from mini- and standard smoothers, to try planes and shoulder planes. There is simply nothing quite as tactile as a wooden plane! There are also not many planes with blades like the Gordons!

The Mujingfang planes in particular are an incredible bargain. I bought a few locally very cheaply I thought then saw the prices on the Japan Woodworker website and was knocked out. I might import a few.

I have made a couple of wooden planes. These were fun projects. My most recent one was adapting an old ECE-like Danish horned woodie into a scrub plane (with radiused blade). How did I flatten boards over the years without it?

Another relatively new acquisition was a half set of Hollows and Rounds. These are also so useful and pleasureable that my tailed router gets much less use these days.

I find myself using my wood planes about 90% of the time now. I have a near full set of Stanleys, including Bedrocks, as well as an infill I made. But these all languish on the shelf now.

A tip for Roger Bell, who does not want to insert a new mouth into his Razee Fore Plane. I have successfully used a piece of veneer on the frog as a shim. This closed the mouth down very well. I was told that a piece of chamois leather was used in the "old days". I mentioned this to a friend, who used it very successfully to rehab his Mathieson infill.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Greg Wandless]

Mark,

I have made at least a dozen Krenov style wooden planes, both flat and curved bottom varieties. They are a joy to use. I like the feel of the wooden body vs the metal body. As with any tool you need learn how to us them and adjust them. I found them easy to make, but be sure to get a good iron for them. I have been using Hock irons. I wouldn't classify them as a student exercise as Pam says, because you are making a prescise and sensitive tool. I not sure what she is refering to when she "their glued parts inhibit water movement". I have a 22" wooden jointer plane that hasn't shifted at all since I made it three years ago. You can't beat the feeling you get using a tool you made when you get a shiny smooth surface straight from the iron. After all it is the surface you get not the shaving that matters.

One other thing I have found that my wooden planes have significantly least friction during use compared to my metal planes making them much easier to push. You can use candle wax to reduction the friction on a metal plane but I don't need it for my wooden ones. Another thing is you can make the sole almost any shape you wany which comes in handy if you want to make a coopered door.

Greg

[Dan Evans]

i would consider the best smoothig planes to be the japanese and the infills. In a previous post the comment was made that wooden planes required "a learning curve" which I agree with. Part of this is adjusting the plane iron. Many of the infills do not have a plane iron adjuster. When Norris came out with one evryone went crazy but there is a catch. A machinist and plane make onec told me you can make smaller adjustments with a light hammer than with a Norris Adjuster due to the limitations of the threads. I have since become a believer.

The japanese have some wonderful plane adjusting hammers that are wonderful to use. Their wooden plane bodies also have to be adjusted with a very fine chisel to fit the plane iron in the dai or wooden body. this is a very time consuming experience but once done they are incredible to use. i havent seen too many jointers or jack size japanese planes but the smoothers are the very best. Pulling is also an easier way to move the plane across a board. harrelson Stanley has a wonderful DVD that describes the adjusting process.

Dan

[Doug Shepard]

I just recently picked up a pair of used (barely) Knight planes through an SMC classified. A finish plane and a pocket plane, both 50 deg. I haven't had much chance to use them yet other than to make some test shavings, but was really pleased with the results. Cant wait to get to a point on a project where I can really try them out.

[Jim Hinze]

I absolutely LOVE my wooden planes. I make most of them, krenov style but have a few of Steve Knights planes.

I'm actually getting ready to sell a lot of my old stanleys as they do not work as well as the woodies...

Some of the speciality planes are harder to dupe in wood, I have a veritas low angle jack I won't part with, a lie-nielsen medium shoulder, and an old stanley router plane from my grandpaw.. but the rest are on their way out...

One of the best way's to learn how to use a woodie is to make one... doesn't matter weather it's a krenov style or traditional .. I find no benefit or performance diffrence based on the construction method...

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Except for specialty molding planes, in general I don't prefer wooden planes. I like metal planes. I like LN in particular and LV a bit less.

I have some Steve Knight planes coming plus a Krenov-style plane I made and one other user-made plane not made by me.

Like you, I'll probably sell most of my old Stanleys and Records except where equivalent planes aren't currently available from LN or LV.

[Brian Kent]

I have really been thrilled with the three Mujingfang rosewood planes that I got at JapanWoodworker. I have the Jack, 8-1/2" Smoother and a 4" high angle polish block plane. They have high speed steel blades, look beautiful, work excellently for me, and cost less than a hock blade alone.

I have ordered a shoulder plane and a high angle polish plane (full size). I use them as much as my irons and also enjoy using different muscles in the middle of a long project.

[John Downey]

Hi Mark,

Wooden planes can be pretty easy to make, depending on what you want out of it, and what your skill level is. I made a scrub plane a couple years ago to replace an old stanely that I dropped. Since I had a lever cap and iron, I just made a traditional style body, but with no wedge, and put a big wood screw in the bed for the lever cap to push against. Works great. There's a book by Cecil Pierce that covers this method. There's also a good one that Lee Valley carries, and another by John Whelan. I've also read one about making Krenov style smoothers and block planes, but never tried one. Looks pretty easy with the applied sides and all, maybe an evenings work.

I've got a big chunk of mahogany thats just itching to become a jointer. I bought it for making chair legs, but I'm thinking two chairs and a jointer rather than three chairs.

John

[harry strasil]

I use almost exclusively antique woodies except for the few specialties I have made, I do carry a Stanley skew angle 140 block plane and a stanley 90 tho.

[Deirdre Saoirse Moen]

Anyone use wooden planes? Do you prefer them over cast iron planes? Anyone every build one?

Yes. No (except that I prefer moulding planes in wood as a general rule). Yes.

[Alan DuBoff]

I use almost exclusively antique woodies except for the few specialties I have made, I do carry a Stanley skew angle 140 block plane and a stanley 90 tho.

Harry, the first planes I bought were a couple old Stanley planes because that's what I remember using as a kid when I was first exposed to woodworking.

Lately, I find myself gravitating more towards wooden planes, and have bought several specialty type woodies, such as a couple slot groovers, a doser, a left and right concave, a couple scewed rabbets (1 1/4" and 2"), and they just seem like decent planes.

I sure like the feel of a wood plane...they really feel nice.

[Jamey Amrine]

I can't believe this post got this far into the second page without some gratuitous photos:



In the upper left, you can see the last of my Bailey planes. It took remouthing an old Howland smoother to make me decide I dodn't need my type 11's anymore (that 5C is still available!). I don't believe in the steep learning curve. A few taps with the hammer, a test cut, and repeat until you have what you want.

They are also far cheaper than what the baileys go for. I get far better results with my wooden planes, and find the lower weight actually beneficial (still don't buy that "weight is better" argument). I think the bedding of the iron is far more important than weight. The wooden planes are certainly far less exhausting to use.

All this is in the eye (hand?) of the craftsman. Depends on what is comfortable to you. It ain't the chariot, it's the horse that pulls it.

-Jamey