Clear Vue vs Oneida, HP Question

[Steve knight]

I run my clearview with a 3hp baldor motor. works pretty well.

[Phil Thien]

To quote from BillPentz.com:

"I gave Ed permission to build my design in trade for a small royalty on each unit sold."

Bill maintains that other manufacturers have essentially ripped off major element of his design, but he doesn't name names and I won't venture to speculate here...But Ed Morango of Clearvue cyclones has certainly licensed Bills design.

How similar is BP's design to the Donaldson-Torit design? I've looked at D-T stuff that is years old and they look remarkably similar to the CV stuff. And of course, D-T goes way back.

[Phil Thien]

Tom - I do agree with you. But, if this is the case, why design a cyclone using an oversized motor as it would increase the purchase price quite a bit? Going from 2 to 3 hp is about $80 and from 3 to 5 hp is about $130 based upon Grainger retail pricing dependant upon what motor design is needed. Cyclones I have seen were drawing full load amps as the motor was matched to the load. I do understand that the load changes based upon suction restrictions and discharge pressure limitations. Just curious I guess .
Pete

I would like to venture a guess at why this is so important. A compressor and dust collector share a similar design issue, which is required startup torque. Just like a compressor motor is hard to start when the tank is charged, a dust collector is difficult to start due to a large amount of mass and a great deal of air resistance. From my perspective, a compressor-rated motor is design to deal with these difficult starting conditions.

[Jim Becker]

First of all I feel you can't knock a unit that you've never owned or used. So I never comment on anything I have never owned. That said, I had a Onieda 2hp I was very disappointed with it's performance. Sold it, bought a Clearvue could not be happier.

Russ, please clarify which Onieda 2hp product you had. There is a marked difference between the 2hp "component" system (older design) and several other 2hp units available earlier and currently. For example, the 2hp Commercial unit I have has substantially better performance than the 2hp Component system...

[John Karam]

Yeah, I'm interested to know which Oneida system you had Russ.

Thanks

[Burt Alcantara]

I bought the Clearvue CV1400 for one reason only. It is the only cyclone that will fit in my 82" ceiling. I did have to build my own trash bin but it's just a box so no problem there.

My only comparison was my previous Harbor Freight DC which never worked to my satisfaction.

The suction or air movement, whatever you want to call it, is very powerful. It will easily suck up tools. Presently, I only use it on my bandsaw but I cut a few hundred pounds of logs almost everyday. No dust. Got that? No dust.

Burt

[Mike Spanbauer]

I own the Pro2000 Oneida, 5hp cyclone. It has a 5hp Baldor F class motor. I've amp'ed it and it pulls between 95 and 110 at start. With all gates closed, it only pulls 11A and with all gates open it pulls 14.5A

I purchased this unit vs. the ClearVue for the following reasons:

• It is built like a TANK - this is not a sheet metal unit, this is plate steel... I don't know how thick it is precisely but you can NOT flex the walls. The entire unit is VERY heavy however which proved a challenge during installation.
• All I had to do was uncrate and bolt together - everything lined up out of the box and was OVER-engineered (I like it that way).
• 5hp unit will accomodate my next shop without having to sell and upgrade. I do not mind coordinating equipment moves up to a certain weight (~800lbs) and, being a hobbyiest, I can't take a deduction annually on the value of the equipment. Therefore a 50% loss on an item this big is a VERY big deal. Buy once, cry once.
• It comes with a very good filter, just expensive as sin to replace. I will likely replace with a Wynn poly or Belfab when the time comes. It's in great shape currently though!
• Comes with a built in muffler and due to the enormous mass (500lbs) it isn't terribly loud

I simply ignored all of the marketing flak, back and forth arguing, and emotional feedback from users. Yes, there is a lot of misinformation out there and it's dang tough to sort through

It was not cheap though.

michael

[Phil Thien]

There is a marked difference between the 2hp "component" system (older design) and several other 2hp units available earlier and currently. For example, the 2hp Commercial unit I have has substantially better performance than the 2hp Component system...

In what way, did they redesign the cyclone itself?

I ask because I sometimes see these units available on the second-hand market and I don't want to get an inferior design just to save a few bucks.

[Brad Shipton]

I would pay close attention to Mike's comment regarding the build time. If you want a nicely painted DC and dont want to hire an electrician it will take time to get it all painted and wired with a remote neatly. I just finished building my ClearVue and totally underestimated this. As far as cost, I think the ClearVue is more $ once you take into account the filters and the separate shipping of them. Also, I don't believe the ClearVue has the same quality electrical as compared to the Onedia. I went with a mag switch just like the Onedia, but I am a little sensitive to electrical problems having dealt with a flaky General switch for the last few months. I am very pleased with the ClearVue and was amazed when I watched it pick up my barrel until it was almost 1/2 full (45gal tank).

Good luck

[Jack Diemer]

Doesn't matter the horsepower, all the motors spin at the same speed. The reason you get bigger horsepower is the ability to spin a bigger/badder impeller without burning up the motor. All the cyclones in question are very high quality. The fan curve should tell you performance if thats what your concerned about. If the manafacturer stands behind there motor/impeller combination, you should be fine.

[Jim Becker]

In what way, did they redesign the cyclone itself?

I ask because I sometimes see these units available on the second-hand market and I don't want to get an inferior design just to save a few bucks.

They have made a number of adjustments...contact them directly for specifics...but even in the "component systems" they added things like neutral vanes and changed some of the metrics in recent years to improve overall performance. The 2hp Commercial and the subsequent Gorilla series added even more. The impellers have also been improved.

[Brent Simons]

I have been collecting facts on this for some time. I don’t own either but I have seen both a Clearvue and an Oneida unit in operation. The first thing I noticed about the Clearvue is that it was very noticeably loud.(the owner complained about this and that he spent a lot of time assembling and buying extra parts that were not included) The barrel was not clear anymore because the swirling material had etched the inside, so it really was not see through anymore. The plastic and particle board construction is really not very impressive. The particle board sagged in the middle and the plastic barrel was cracked on the seam.

On the other hand the 2.5HP Oneida was very solidly built and a lot quieter. Previously mentioned on this forum it makes a lot of sense that they both have 14/15 inch fan wheels and 3450 RPM motors, so they have to have roughly equivalent air flow, regardless of the HP claims. Turns out that the Clearvue is a 5HP in name only, again as per posts on this forum, and doesn’t draw nearly enough amps to be functioning as a 5HP. They are also roughly the same price, except the Oneida comes complete with a starter switch, remote and filter. Forum posters say that both separate well with just a trace in filter after hours of operation, but in the end it’s the filter that stops the really fine dust and I don’t see where the paper blended filter Clearvue recommends could be better than the Oneida spunbond filter. Quite frankly I really don’t see how you can compare these two units apples to apples.

[Rob Cohen]

What counts here is CFM, particularly under load. The system needs to move enough air at a given load(static pressure )to power your system. This is a question for the manufacturer when they see your system design. So, if a given unit that is 3HP meets your needs there is no current reason to go bigger..I say current as you may perhaps want to upgrade to a larger longer pipe system in the future
Electricity is likely to get cheaper. A good way to save power is to get the remote relay start(there is one listed at C View). You'll be more likely to keep the system off when it's not needed
Thats my 2 cents

Rob

[Wade Lippman]

I would like to venture a guess at why this is so important. A compressor and dust collector share a similar design issue, which is required startup torque. Just like a compressor motor is hard to start when the tank is charged, a dust collector is difficult to start due to a large amount of mass and a great deal of air resistance. From my perspective, a compressor-rated motor is design to deal with these difficult starting conditions.

I think you are wrong there; there isn't much load on a DC until it gets moving briskly, and then there is plenty of torque to run it. A compressor and a DC are almost exactly the opposite.
A 1hp motor could start the CV easily enough; it would just be unable to get it up to speed.
I also have wondered about the 5hp motor. Rounding the 3.5hp up to 5 doesn't make a whole lot of sense; they would have just cut the design down to 3hp and made it a few hundred dollars cheaper without changing the performance much.
I "suspect" it is a particularly cheap motor, and it is one reason I went with Oneida.

[Paul Johnstone]

As far as noise goes, I won't deny that the Clearvue makes noise.
I don't know how the noise is vs the Oneida.

One thing we should all remember though is to wear hearing protection in the shop. I know it's a pain, especially with a resperator and an eye/face shield, but most of the tools you are collecting dust from make a lot of noise as well.

As a college student, I really wish I had a better motorcycle helmet. I've lost a lot of hearing out of my right ear (the loud exhaust pipes were on that side). Take care of your hearing, you don't want to lose it faster than nature will take it from you..

Ok, thanks for listening to my lecture