I think I want to build furniture for a living

[Jim Marshall]

There is some great advice here, I wish I had been able to talk to some of you guys when I started my business years ago. For 20 years or so I went from one thing to the other trying to find my niche in wood working. I tried furniture, hospital casework, production furniture, custom stairs and many other things, but building furniture was still what I wanted to do. I built several pieces and one on one building is very costly as has been said here already. Finally, after 20 years, found my niche which was restoring the old homes of the Early 1800's. I reproduced some furniture of that era but mostly reproduced many things that were of that era including trim, stairs and such which could not be bought at a store. The last part of my career I did quite well and had a waiting list of up to two years for our work, but there were quite a few times that were very lean also but the bills still had to be paid.

These fellows have given you some fantastic advice and it is coming from experience which is golden. Wood working is a tough business to break into so be patient, it was my career for over 37 years, I wish I could still be out there working.

[Chuck Lenz]

That is why the successful stores such as Ethan Allen, Wood Mode etc. all take a specific style, or models, and keep making them again, and again. I know it is boring standing at a machine turning out 200 of the same piece, but it is the efficient way to make money at it. You can even incorporate the profitable method of being a middle man, leveraging others behavior. Oddly enough once the machine is set up right, hiring an inexpensive unskilled worker to run pieces past a router all day is possible. Ok that is the nuts and bolts of efficiency, and maximizing profits in woodworking.

Thats the way things USE to be. Ethan Allen and Lane no longer produce furniture in this country that I know of, if they do it's very little. Inexpensive workers become expensive when you have to pay workmans comp, unemployment, and match social security and taxes, then theres bennefits if you want to keep anyone dependable. Personally, I would advise against going into such a endevor.

[Ellen Benkin]

The best advice I have gleaned from these responses is to retire on a pension (with health insurance) that you can live on and then try to make furniture for a supplemental income. If you are good and lucky, you will be able to make good money. Otherwise, you will just enjoy making furniture.

[Rick Gooden]

It's all about finding the clients. If your going to do furniture it needs to be high quality and unique. You will need to find a high end circle of clients to sustain this type of ww. As has been said here before, everyday furniture can be found for a lot less than you can make it. Get a job to support your passion, hone your skills (both ww and presentation), find an outlet. I have an interior designer to the high end market that takes me to the client. She provides me with as much work as I want and I can be selective. I work for her exclusively as far as designers go, and have done a number of pieces for her personal residence (for cost of materials and minimal labor). I'm not any better than anyone else and there are many here that far surpass my abilities, but marketing makes the difference. I have another occupation and only do 6 to 8 projects per year which is a nice supplement.

[George Bregar]

Very good thread. My thoughts...as I too at some point would like to WW for $$$. Clearly there is no way to compete against furniture stores, high to low end. And the cabinet business is very competitive. I personally would stay away from both.

My cabin is in the northwoods of WI, and although the local population is not a very good market, there is huge money coming in from Chicago and the Twin Cities. A modest lake home runs $250k, and there are many many $1 million+ plus homes in the area. The nearest big box is an hour away.

People who have second homes in this price range have money. I talked to a high end furniture store (just bought a $2,000 love seat) about upholstering my Morris Chair, and they all thought what a great chair, and how perfect for a cottage. I commented that they had no Arts and Craft furniture at all, and they were interested in consignment. I'm really not, as that eliminates a lot of the margin I would need for myself, however it may be a good short term way to get the word out and buy credibility.

I think vacation homes are a great market for high end custom furniture. They will not be redecorated often like primary residences, and typically are smaller so less furniture, so custom and long term have appeal. And Art and Crafts, which I love to build, fit the bill.

A resulting market from above is "special" one-offs to clients. A client's son graduates law school...a custom desk and barrister bookcase. Daughter turns 16...a custom pencil post bed. Appeal to the "I had this built just for you"...much more powerful than "a bought this for you". I think this can also lead to custom office furniture...desks, conference tables...because these people have money and want to impress.

Just my dream.

[Dennis Kelly]

Dan,
Great discussion! I am alot like you, I currently teach middle school which gives me a fair amount of time to build custom furniture on the side. I started by doing one craft fair, and ever since I have had enough business to keep me busy and help pay for tools in the shop. I plan to do more craft fairs this spring.

I love my time building furniture and when I'm teaching...I'm thinking about building furniture. I will continue doing what I'm doing because it's hard to give up a pension and great benefits. But when the time is right, I hope to make the switch full time. So, when you think the time is right...go for it!!!

Good luck Dan!!! I'm pulling for you.

Dennis

[Frank Orzehoski]

Dan - pay attention the posts by guys who have actually done this for a living as they are very accurate. I am in the process of building a furniture business right now and there are challenges just like they describe. It is hard work and you may not succeed but if you don't try, it may be something you regret later. But in saying that, I have the luxury of having a wife bringing down a good salary so the personal finances aren't jeopardized. If I didn't have that I don't know how fast I would have tried what I am doing. If you go forward, shop efficiency and good production techniques will be critical as well as understanding how to correctly price your work. Best of luck should you go forward.

[julie Graf]

expect not to make money while you are building your portfolio of work

develop a style but be flexible with clients wants/needs/tastes

forget about healthcare. (yikes!)

it helps to consolidate your living and work space. (we just bought an old church and have our shop on the first floor and live in the old sanctuary/2nd floor)

apprentice with someone for a few years to learn what the heck you are doing and tricks of the trade

I think that people *DO* want nice furniture and will pay for it - they just have to know it's out there. our clients don't want to shop at pottery barn/ethan allen because everyone else does. they want quality stuff, not a fortune, and different. they are stepping up from IKEA and they want functional nice stuff. they like the fact that someone they can meet actually made it!

get out and meet people somehow - most of our clients come from social contacts/aquaintances and word of mouth.

DO GOOD WORK!

it's also a lifestyle choice. we don't expect to be making a ton of money. but we still expect to make a living.

explain your pricing. people don't realize wood costs a lot of money. if they understand this they are more willing to pay for it.

have people come to your shop. again, explain the process so they understand why it costs money to make custom furniture. show them woods, examples of joinery, finishes... be excited. if you are excited, they will get excited.

[Dan Barr]

I really appreciate all of the advice. Good point julie, be excited. im in the middle of my first piece for a client and me tailoring my "pitch" to him and his personality was a big part of the deal to say the least. knowing your client personally helped in this case. im sure i will not know plenty of future clients and that will shape my pitches in the future.

how to step forward. scary...

many of the points made seem to be spot on and logical. im not expecting tons of money, just to do what i like. knowing that a person appreciates my work and it is part of their life is very nice.

i look forward to more advice and stories.

thanks,

dan

[Bob Feeser]

[quote=Scott Seigmund;732967]

If you enjoy woodworking as a hobby, I can assure you that your personal relationship with the craft will be much different when your mortgage depends on it.

Regards,

Scott

Scott,
You brought up a good point. I remember how my love for woodworking was tarnished when I was forced to meet deadlines. It was great as long as I could spend whatever time I needed. But when I had to rush the job, because it was supposed to be done on Friday, and the finishing process demanded more time, then after letting the stain dry overnight, and it still wasn't completely dry, but in order to meet the deadline, you take a chance, and sure enough, you lay the finish on, and you see some blotchiness, and suddenly your heart is not in it any more. Spend all of this time to get this beautiful oak just right, all the seams are fitting like a glove, it looks like a work of art, then the blotchiness happens, and what do you see? If you can't do it right, why do it at all? At moments like this, I think of a T Shirt I made up, and it said
I have a lot of respect, for the fine art, of hiding sloppy craftsmanship.
Get out the minwax urethane with the stain already mixed in a blast a few coats of that on it to even it out. Then bake it with a blast heater. Then I walk around the shop, in a German accent, talking to myself, calling my self "Dr Goodenough" What can I say, I'm picky, the customer loved the end result. Besides she wanted them dark anyhow. Boy I sure hated covering up all that beautiful red oak, with such a dark stain.

[Bill Bryant]

When I drive up and down the commercial streets of my city, I'm often struck by the fact that every law office, architectural firm, dentist clinic, fast food provider, aquarium store, florist shop, gun store, band instrument store, auto body repair shop, and on and on--every one of them represents somebody not listening to the "you can't do it" advice, and just doing it.

I've often thought of launching out into self-imployment myself. Of course I've been a teacher for many years: an employee working under others in a fairly stable, job-security situation, so self-employment of any kind is a great unknown for me and might be a total disaster.

But I'm also a guy who had the tenacity (I know how to do 16-hour work days for days on end) to complete a master's degree in music history with a 3.99 GPA (don't ask about why it wasn't a 4.0!), I've got a wife with scads of bookkeeping/business management skills who'd love to use them for our own business instead of someone else's, I've designed several websites and edited several newsletters, I'm handy not just with wood but also with metal.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that everybody who starts his own business has to do it with a "never say die" attitude and just put in the 16 hour days and go for the brass ring. So you fail. So what. Set your sight high enough and failing will get you farther than the next guy who "succeeded" at a low goal.

I'm tired and it's late. I hope some of that made sense. I won't go back and edit it.

[Frank Orzehoski]

When I drive up and down the commercial streets of my city, I'm often struck by the fact that every law office, architectural firm, dentist clinic, fast food provider, aquarium store, florist shop, gun store, band instrument store, auto body repair shop, and on and on--every one of them represents somebody not listening to the "you can't do it" advice, and just doing it.

I've often thought of launching out into self-imployment myself. Of course I've been a teacher for many years: an employee working under others in a fairly stable, job-security situation, so self-employment of any kind is a great unknown for me and might be a total disaster.

But I'm also a guy who had the tenacity (I know how to do 16-hour work days for days on end) to complete a master's degree in music history with a 3.99 GPA (don't ask about why it wasn't a 4.0!), I've got a wife with scads of bookkeeping/business management skills who'd love to use them for our own business instead of someone else's, I've designed several websites and edited several newsletters, I'm handy not just with wood but also with metal.

Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that everybody who starts his own business has to do it with a "never say die" attitude and just put in the 16 hour days and go for the brass ring. So you fail. So what. Set your sight high enough and failing will get you farther than the next guy who "succeeded" at a low goal.

I'm tired and it's late. I hope some of that made sense. I won't go back and edit it.

Bill - well said. I just love advice or even posts, posts in this thread who take the fatalist view even before you try. AND some of these advisers or posters aren't even small business owners! Small business is the real backbone of this country and as you said, if everyone listened to the doom and gloom crowd there wouldn't be any. Starting and owning your business is risky and time consuming, but those who have succeded, at least my former commercial loan clients and friends who have their own shops wouldn't have it any other way despited the head aches.

[John Thompson]

I personally don't read a "fatlist" view from the posters that took the time to give their insight. I did not see one post mentioning you "must not" open your own business. Just opinions from those that have traveled the same route and gone one way or the other based on what they had already experienced or seen.

I had my own business for 9 years and sold it for a modest but handsome profit... allowing me to retire 8 weeks ago at 60 when the company I was with hit a slow year. And it was a slow year by about all as evidenced by retail sales figures at Xmas which is a vital part of retail business. A signal that money is tight and will remain so till indicators show otherwise.

Basically I think the majority have just issued a warning to not jump into full production with expensive purchases for initial up-start with full intentions of going full time from day one with sole reliance of the outcome being your only means of support.

Dan is retiring from the military. I assume that will mean some type of pension and would put him in an excellent position to test the water starting with the little toe and exposing more of the foot as he finds it suitable and logical. Good luck and wishes for sucess.

But.. a good point has also been brought up. When you go commercial you are not on your time. Your tiime basically belongs to the customer with dead-lines to meet along with his expectations of what you produce. You are not creating with your intentions.. but theirs.

I have done a few one-off pieces in the past for a customer. I did not care the the dead-line.. I did not care for his preception of what it would look like finalized.. and I did not care for the fact they irratated me immensely by changing there course in the middle of the stream several times.

Frankly... I personally feel doing it at request of client for sole income s**ks. What was love of craft just got turned into working production with a deadline to meet. I just want to work with the wood as I love it and I let it's characteristics and grain tell me what it needs to look like and be in it's second life. Not a client.

Deadlines.... not my cup of tea!

Sarge..

[Dennis Montgomery]

I am a full time woodworker and I shudder at the thought of trying to make a living building furniture. The reason this is such a difficult business is the average consumer's knowledge in furniture prices. There are furniture stores on every corner and everyday we get flooded with furniture sale flyers. All this information gives consumers an idea of what something should cost. And quite honestly, there is a lot of nice furniture at Rooms to Go at a reasonable price.

Trying to build high-end, heirloom, or museum quality furniture narrows your product to a much smaller audience, which makes it even more difficult to achieve the volume of sales you need to earn a living.

My core business is custom closets, built-ins (bookcases and entertainment centers), and an occasional kitchen. But most importantly what I do centers around providing storage and clutter solutions, then build it. Custom built-in casework is something a consumer cannot walk into a store and price out. It has to be designed with a lot of customer interaction. Since they don't have a financial reference point they rarely argue about the price.

There have been a number of comments in this thread about sticking with casework and I fully agree. There is a lot of money in it and a big audience needing it.

If I were retired and didn't have to do what I do to feed my family I would probably build some furniture and try to find a market for it. I hate installing casework in people's homes, but it's part of the job. I would much rather build furniture and have someone come pick it up. However, until I find a market to sell Morris chairs for $5000 each, I'll stick with custom built-ins.

[Frank Orzehoski]

Different strokes for different folks I guess. Some people would prefer to keep it a hobby, others want to take it to the next level despite the head aches. That is a good thing considering the stuff being sold today by the mass retailers.