Best Buys in Planes

[Alex Yeilding]

From reading around here I am understanding the importance of getting a quality tool even if you are a newbie. Going used and trying to refurb a plane as a beginner seems fraught with peril and frustration. So I accept the fact that I will need to lay down some $$$ to get a "starter set" that will get me planing.

From what I've read it seems like the basic plane set would consist of a block, jack (5 1/2), jointer (7 or 8), and smooth plane (4 1/2). What are considered the "best of breed" for these types?

Block: LN Low Angle?
Jack: LV Low Angle Bevel-up
Jointer: ???
Smooth: ???

Thanks in advance for your input

Matt

I just got the LV low angle jack, and really like it. But my advice for starting is old Stanleys from a reputable source. You can score some great deals on ebay if you know what you are doing. But you can pay top dollar for cr$% as well.

While my new LV may take over the crown, for the last several years, far-and-away my favorite plane has been an old Stanley #8. Hard to describe, but it just worked better than my other planes. I bought it from a very reputable source (Patrick Leach, author of Stanley Blood and Gore) who I emailed with a request that I wanted a #7 or #8 "worker", cosmetics not critical, but didn't want to have to do much rehabbing or flattening.

A friend has bought several planes from a fellow who buys off of ebay and rehabs planes. That is another good approach, but I'm sorry I don't have his name to offer.

[Gary Herrmann]

I've got the LV triumvirate. Very happy with their performance. Some don't like the totes compared to the LNs. Some will argue bevel up vs bevel down. Vintage vs new. I don't own any LNs. Yet. But I look at them every time I "need" a new plane.

I have vintage chisels and saws. Not sure why I went new with planes. Hmm. I am looking at vintage specialty planes lately...

Find someone locally that has some planes you can try, or go to a show to get your hands on them before you purchase. You'll get plenty of opinions and good advice here.

Your own opinions will change as you try more hand tools and get more comfortable with them, so don't feel like you're locked into a decision.

And watch your speed as your hurtle down the slope...

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I regret saying "Best of Breed". I really meant what I titled the post, "Best Buy". I'm looking for solid tools, not the ultimate.

I was already looking seriously at the Veritas triumverate. It seems like a good way to get a lot of flexibility with just three planes. As you point out, they all share the same blades, plus you can change the pitch by just regrinding the blade or swapping out to a steeper blade.

Is there a downside to using these oversized block planes?

Matt

Matt, I hate to even ask, as this is the non-tailed arena, but do you intend to use your planes in concert with power tools? If so, I think your list needs tweaked. If you are going all man powered, I think you are missing one too.

If you have the usual tablesaw, jointer, planer, focus your planes on surface prep and joinery. I'd get a #4 1/2, #65 low angle block, and a Record, Preston, or Lie-Nielsen shoulder plane to cover the basics. Forget the stock prep, you won't use them for that if you use the power tools.

If you don't use powered tools, you still need to add a good soulder plane, and I would strongly recommend old Stanleys for your bench planes.

Getting one of them to work right, which usually means a cleaning and a sharpening, teaches loads about planes. Don't buy something that is broken, and you'll be fine. I'll probably get beat up on for saying this, but it is extreemely rare that a plane needs lapped, or extensive tunning. I have around 200 planes, of which I've lapped exactly one. It needed it, but most of them don't. I like the idea of using a tool that very well could have been used by my great grandfather. Vintage tools add something to the woodworking expierience that is hard to explain.

Steve

[Matt Lentzner]

I do plan to use (and already own a few for my house rennovations - SCMS, Portable TS, Drills, 2.25hp Router) tailed tools. My shop space is small so I don't plan on getting a cabinet saw nor a jointer. So far it's all stuff I can wheel out into the driveway or side yard. The only exception would be a bandsaw. I do plan on getting a portable planer. Joinery wise I intend to use a dowelmax for now.

Seems to me the LV BU LA Jack could be immediately useful since I only own a small block plane at the moment. I need something to work down a non-flat board to run it through the planer.

I have Chris Schwarz's workbench book so I'm stoked to build the french bench from his book. I'll need a jointing plane for that since there's no way I could flatten that table with the power tools I have.

Also I'd much rather plane than sand so a smoother would be nice although I understand the LV Jack can make do.

Thanks for all the help and advice,

Matt

[Marcus Ward]

It's hilarious in a forum devoted to doing things manually that the general advice is to buy the ones that are already tuned because it's easier. I say buy the really messed up ones and learn to fix them so when you're using ANY hand plane you'll know how to make it work. Sure it's nice, if you have the money, to buy the very fine LV or LN planes but it's also kind of like 2 guys who own a 69 chevelle. One of them rebuilt it from a rusty heap, the other one bought it already restored. Who is going to be able to fix it when it breaks down?

As for the LV la jack make sure you get a blade with a high angle on it because that low angle blade is gonna do un-nice things to your bench top if you have reversing grain - in other words, be very careful how you lay up your boards, all grain should run the same direction. If you don't it's a pain to get it smooth without tearout. Don't ask me how I know that.

[Sam Yerardi]

Matt,

Since you revised it to 'best buy' then that changes my answer. I would love to be able to afford the LNs and the Veritas but for my money I'll stick with the Stanleys and wooden planes. One interesting point that I hear over and over is if you get the older planes you will have to learn how to refurbish them. That should be the least of the considerations. IMHO, if you are going to take the hand tool route then learn how to service and maintain them. It's really not that difficult. At the very least, at some point whether it is LN or whatever you will have to pull that iron out and sharpen it again. Of all the effort to refurbish a plane, IMHO sharpening is where I believe you will spend the most time, and rightfully so. It's like a race car driver that doesn't want to know how to work on his car. He just wants a top running machine everytime he gets behind the wheel. If he's a top NASCAR guy he'll have a crew. But none of us do (I think ). And, Part of the enjoyment I get from using old tools is the refurbishing, but that's just me.

As far as wooden planes, don't discount them. Properly tuned they'll equal or out-perform the metals ones.

[Montgomery Scott]

I started out buying more hand tools a few years ago not knowing much about hand planes. I bought a new Record #4 that works, but it's not a great plane. I've since added a few Stanley #4s, one as old as 100 years, an LV LA block, a Stanley block, a corrugated Stanley #5 that I enjoy using, particularly since it was part of my granddad's collection, a Shepherd Norris A6 kit (still in box) and a newly purchased LV BU jointer plane that I bought for a couple of table jobs since the slabs are up to 27" wide and my 8" power jointer is useless for this job.

With the exception of having my grandfather's plane and the A6 I would buy all LV planes. The innovative design, quality and value is outstanding.

[peter newton]

The LV bevel up Jack is just superb, its versatial, you can flatten, smooth, shoot, joint and with both the low angle and high angle blades it fine for even difficult woods. I have an LN no4 bronze which is great but if I had to have just one plane I would go for the LV BU Jack.

[Matt Lentzner]

The LV bevel up Jack is just superb, its versatial, you can flatten, smooth, shoot, joint and with both the low angle and high angle blades it fine for even difficult woods. I have an LN no4 bronze which is great but if I had to have just one plane I would go for the LV BU Jack.

I'm going to buy it. You put me over the top.

Which additional blades did you get? 38 deg, 50 deg, or both?

Regards,

Matt

[Jesse Cloud]

Spooky! I have the exact set that Danny described, the LN 60 1/2 block, and the Veritas trio. I also have the Veritas (small) shoulder plane. The combo works for me. They all feel like old friends.

I also have a few refurbed Stanley's that I pull out every now and then, but the combo above does 98% of anything I ever do.

[Don C Peterson]

It's hilarious in a forum devoted to doing things manually that the general advice is to buy the ones that are already tuned because it's easier. I say buy the really messed up ones and learn to fix them so when you're using ANY hand plane you'll know how to make it work. Sure it's nice, if you have the money, to buy the very fine LV or LN planes but it's also kind of like 2 guys who own a 69 chevelle. One of them rebuilt it from a rusty heap, the other one bought it already restored. Who is going to be able to fix it when it breaks down?

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but to take your example and explore another aspect of it...

What do you think the chances are that a guy who bought an old junker, and had never worked or even ridden in a car, would be able to turn the old junker into a functioning car, much less a finely tuned hot rod?

Now, cars are MUCH more complicated than planes, but having the experience of a well tuned plane under your belt makes the possibility of salvaging a junker much higher. I, for one, never knew what a good plane was supposed to be like. My first experiences with planes was in a high school shop class. The planes were probably decent quality (Stanley's of an unknown vintage) but they were not tuned or sharpened well. My next experience with a plane was buying a junker and experiencing the old frustrations all over again. Then I tried to sharpen and tune the thing, and although it worked a bit better, it was far from good, but I didn't know that. Hearing people TALK about how wonderful planes are I was beginning to think that all you "plane guys" were delusional.

Finally, after much internal debate and delay, I convinced myself to spend the "outrageous" sum for a LN #4. Holy cow! Right out of the box that thing worked, the light bulb went on, and my feet lost all traction as I took my first step down the slope... Granted, my #4 works better now than it did when I pulled it out of the box, but if it hadn't been for that thing making marvelously thin shavings right out of the box, I would have written off planes (and probably most other hand tools), in favor of their noisy and dirty tailed children (not that I'm a purist Neander type).

I have since rehabbed old planes, chisels, saws, and various and sundry other old tools, all because that LN (and subsequent LN planes) opened my eyes to what they could do and how they SHOULD work.

[Marcus Ward]

Oh I just used a LV la jack at a woodworking show for 3 minutes, that gave me an idea of what to shoot for and it was free. There's plenty of us who will let you come over and use our planes to see how they're supposed to work and save you that 300$ for a good 'example'. If you can afford it great, but most can't.

FWIW, there's a LV LA jack sitting in a box on my kitchen table, just arrived, but I bought it after rehabbing 20+ old stanleys and because I needed what it provides, not my first plane.

[Mike Cutler]

Matt

You're going to like that Low Angle Jack. It's a fine plane. I have LN's, but the LV's are just as nice.

As for the different blade pitches. I might extend a word of caution. All of those blades have specific functions that they perform "better". they also have tasks, and woods that they are each individually better suited for. This means that they each will require a "tuning"( I hate that phrase. It sounds like we're getting ready to play a guitar, not use a tool) each time they are changed. Something to think about. It's very easy to tune a plane once you get used to it. IMHO. Sharpeneing and honing the blade properly is the biggest obstacle to overcome initially.

One of the reasons that folks end up with so many planes though, is that they have multiple planes of the same type with different pitch angles that don't require the blade to be swapped out prior to use. This reason alone is why Marcus' post's have a great deal of merit. Not only financially but from the economizing of time on the work flow process.

Don't give up on the used market,and don't be intimidated about rehabbing planes. It's easy. It just takes some time and attention to detail.

Congrats on your decision. It's a fine plane, and you'll use it a lot.

[James Nolan]

It's true, those LN and LV planes are sweet, as well are tuned vintage stanleys and woodies. I've been a roofer and framer from the age 14 and just recently dove into this world of fancier tools, so take whatever I say with a grain of salt. After learning through trial and error as well as by example I feel I can sharpen and tune most bench and block planes to an acceptable tolerance. I did buy a LN4 and adjustable mouth block for reference. Over a little bit of practice and time I found myself able to turn many an e-bay buys into a comparable contender. It got to the point that I would not even use the LNs for fear of hitting a nail etc.(I am forced to use antique wood). Welcome to the slippery slope. Now they just sit on a shelf in favor of my new favorite the woodies. So i guess if you expect not to rehab older models and only buy once go for the big money ones, but I suspect you, like many on this forum will try to rehab a couple, those expensive ones will cause you nothing but buyers remorse after a bit of time with the vintage guys. Its tons of fun too, just my 2 cents

[peter newton]

Matt, the blade it comes with plus the 38. Of course you can hone the origonal blade to any angle, I put on a micro bevel of of 35 which gave me an effective bevel 12+35=47 degrees; I find this deals with most woods although it is a bit harder to push than the standard bevel. You will not be disapointed. The adjustable mouth is just great and the back of the iron is lapped dead flat, dead easy to get a mirror polish.