Sign making in high school?

[Scott duprat]

Hello all, I am looking for some help in adding a new machine to my classroom. My boss just came in and has $2600 that we need to spend, I am looking at adding a signmaking unit to my engineering/design classes. What should I be looking so far as a vinyl cutter/plotter that will allow us integrate into our curriculum? Suggestions?

My background is pretty wide ranging, have taught for 13+ years, from taditional industrial arts (wood, metal, electricity, graphic arts, drafting), computer science, and now pre-engineering at the Career Tech level (vocational). Have good background in CAD and image software (some corel - a long time ago, Photoshop, etc. Also well versed in machine tools and CNC programming and setup.

Any ideas? The whole setup should fall under the $2600 limit, apparatus, supplies, shipping. I would assume when the machine is bought it will be bundled with some design software, if not what should I look at for a base level student with average computer skills?


Thank you all for your time,

Scott

[Scott Shepherd]

Good question. Only things I can think of might be Dye-Sub or Color Laser Transfer. If you go vinyl, unless you go Chinese, you'll have a problem with even the smallest unit and supplies for that price. Can't go laser for that price.

I would think Dye-Sub would be great for them. You could also do all the school fundraiser work as well. They could actually generate cash and make enough to buy new supplies.

I would guess you'd be pushing it right to the limit to get Dye-sub equipment and supplies, but it could get you started.

I haven't seen the Color Laser Transfer work, but that also could do similar things and might be a bit more flexible with products you can do. Mouse pads, coffee cups, and anything else with school logos on them, I would guess.

Just thinking out loud. Might be much better suggestions by others.

[Doug Bergstrom]

Dye sub would only work if you already have a heat press, otherwise I think it would be tough with that budget. Check with some of the Roland vendors or call Roland direct and see if they have an academic price they would give you or a used/refirb machine for vinyl cutting. You can find plenty of discontinued vinyl cheap through Fellers or others to get you started. Once you have the equipment supplies would go into your regular budget correct?

[Joe Pelonio]

There are some decent Chinese plotters with software out there now, but you have a different situation. With equipment in a school, many people using it at different times, I'd look for local support.

Here for example, buying from a sign supply in Seattle, I had a tech that would come out same or next day while on warranty, same after but then they would charge, however phone help was still free.

That would mean buying name brand plotter from a sign supply with a location
nearby. A Graphtec CE5000 with software and Corel plugin or Roland GX-24
could run you just under $2,000, not leaving much for the rest of what you need in the way of transfer tape, vinyl and other supplies.

Another issue with a plotter is that everything is vector, you'd need experience and software to convert rastor to vector. Some of the CAD programs you already have might produce plotter HPGL files that can be imported into the sign software, but there can be issues with CAD files.

[Scott Shepherd]

I guess I just thought that a school could make a lot more money selling dye-sub type products than vinyl work.

[Joe Pelonio]

I guess I just thought that a school could make a lot more money selling dye-sub type products than vinyl work.

That is probably true. I have done work for High Schools and it's mostly banners and parking signs. Not things that would sell to students/families.

I did have a High School art student that got work study credit for working for me, some extra paperwork but worth it as she was a great employee.

Seems like the best use would be from a large format full color printer, but those cost as much or more than lasers.

[James Stokes]

Do not take offence but I have a problem with the schools having to spend money on something they do not need or sometimes even want. Where I live I here every day how the schools need to raise taxes for this or that. I have received more than one call from different schools in this area wanting to buy something just to spend some money. With calls like that I refuse to sell to them. Just my opinion.

[Joe Pelonio]

Do not take offence but I have a problem with the schools having to spend money on something they do not need or sometimes even want. Where I live I here every day how the schools need to raise taxes for this or that. I have received more than one call from different schools in this area wanting to buy something just to spend some money. With calls like that I refuse to sell to them. Just my opinion.

I took the original post as a teacher wanting to take advantage of an opportunity to add another element to what he's teaching in his program. Having done civil service budget work in a previous life, I understand that
people have "wish lists" for things that are not included in a budget, but may be added back in as other items come in under budget during the year.

I have had several customers, public agencies and otherwise, that would sometimes pay in advance for items that are not needed until later, in order to use (and not lose) funds in the current budget year about to end.

[Scott duprat]

Joe, it looks like we are going to with the Roland GX-24, thanks. As far as the vector software goes, CAD is what I have at the moment, but can put it in the budget next year for a couple of seats, we just got approved for a $50,000 state grant for next year, most will go towards a manufacturing workcell, but I might be able to fit in some for software. Any recommendations for quick learning curve/student simple/industry usage? I also be investigating the possibility of adding a laser next year as part of the next round of federal funding starting in the spring. I will be looking to bend an ear for that as well.

James, it's not to spend just to spend, it is money that was appropriated from Federal Projects, it goes back if we did not spend it. Our director did a very good job at helping us find the best deals that we could for equipment that we did need. This is the extra that if we send back will not get used and the feds will send it off to some other area. So rather than waste an opportunity, I am hoping to expand our curriculum and in turn offer something that the kids might not be exposed to. So it is not something that is not needed, or unwanted - we will use this, as the reason that I am asking people in the field for what might or might not work.

Thank you all for your help

Scott

[Joe Pelonio]

Scott,

For you as the instructor, I would find a cooperative sign shop owner that will allow you to "work" as an unpaid intern. There's a lot more to it than just cutting vinyl, and a production shop is the best way to learn. I have found that new employees even with a graphics background (art students) will take 2-3 weeks to get up to speed just on weeding, taping, and applting the vinyl to the substrates. I always had them master that before even starting on sign layout and design, which is much different from paper and web page design.

Then doing vehicle graphics is another whole learning experience, with curves and no horizontal lines to line up with as on the top and bottom of a board
or banner.

[Anthony Fields]

FWIW, my shop teachers made the biggest impression on me. I still use their patience and theories to date. They actually tried to teach something useful. Bravo for trying.

[Ed Lang]

FWIW, my shop teachers made the biggest impression on me. I still use their patience and theories to date. They actually tried to teach something useful. Bravo for trying.

I will also chime in here and say that my shop, drafting and Ag instructors had much more of an impact on my life than they knew at the time. I now make my living in my wood working shop, running laser and CNC routing equipment as well as the traditional equipment.

I was invited to speak at one of our local FFA meetings about my laser and CNC machines. It is a pleasure to see a very well run meeting the the people were very polite and asked questions. Not what I expected from our youth this day.

My hats off to the many "trades" instructors. You are making America great!

ed

[Mike Null]

Scott

I think you made a wise decision. There are many things you can do with a vinyl cutter besides signs.

For one you can make team and school logo decals for cars.

Add a heat press and you can make jerseys, sweatshirts etc. Hit the suppliers up for tutorials and free goods. They'll come to the party.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDdY4a9ChKc

[Keith Outten]

I think you can purchase a George Knight 14" by 16" heat press for about $1,200.00 and a small dye-sub printer for under $500.00...Total = $$1,700.00 which leaves you enough to purchase some shirts and paper. Sales of shirts should be brisk at the High School. Take your profits and keep adding to your equipment, next might be a coffee mug press.

All you need is Corel Draw for software but you can use any graphics program you happen to have like photoshop or Paint Shop Pro which is cheap.

Look for grant money, it is available. Our local school got a 5' by 10' ShopBot CNC router and it didn't cost them a penny. The sad part is that they don't even run their router because they don't have a shop teacher that is willing to learn to use the machine. What a waste

.