Blade and bit cleaner???

[Joe Unni]

Mark,

I've used Zep's Citrus Cleaner/Degreaser from the Borg with very good luck. I just pour a some in the top of a 5 gallon bucket lid and drop the blade in. Within 15 minutes the goo just wipes away with minimal (if any) brass brushing required.

Good luck,
-joe

[Cody Colston]

I've always used oven cleaner and will continue to do so unless the carbide starts detaching from the blade...which I seriously doubt will happen.

I spray it on, let it set for about a minute and brush with a brass-bristled brush then rinse off the residue. I blot it dry with a paper towel and it's as clean as new.

[Denny Rice]

Call Grizzly. Bought a can of their brings tears to your eyes blade cleaner; it removed not only 30 year old resin, but started on the paint as well when I left it on too long. They say safe for carbide...and so far, they are right.

I have also had very good sucess with Grizzly's blade cleaner. All of Grizzly's cleaners seem to be top notch. I like the orange scented grease/oil remover for new tools that come covered to prevent rusting. It works great, and smells great too.

[Clay Crocker]

I use and really like Empire Blade Saver.

Clay

[Charles Wiggins]

The only thing I've tried was sudsy ammonia and warm water. The fresher stuff dissolves right off. Soak for about 10 mins. then scrub with an old toothbrush. That gets most or all of it most of the time. If there's still stuff left, soak some more, then scrub some more. Right now I have more elbow grease than money.

[Scott Long]

Shopnotes did a test on blade cleaners a few months back. I remember them saying that lestoil works very well. I have not tried the lestoil yet but I have a bottle in the shop right now. I plan on trying it out if I can squeeze in some shop time.

[scott spencer]

I've tried 409, LA's Totally Awesome, Greased Lightning, Simple Green, Boeshield's Blade & Bit, Goo Gone, Dawn w/water, and Easy Off....all worked well. Boeshield was the most expensive and I didn't see an advantage, Easy Off is the messiest and a little expensive with no noticeable advantage, and since there's some debate about it's impact on the brazing, I see nothing gained by choosing it over the alternatives. The Goo Gone and degreasers all seem to work about equally well, so I just grab whatever, spray or squirt, hit it with a toothbrush, and I'm done within 5 minutes start to finish. It's likely that I clean my blades more often than some, so I rarely encounter really bad build up.

Freud recommends a kerosene soak. I've even used WD-40 in a pinch, but tend to go with the degreaser sprays most often.

[Tom Walz]

47. Cleaning Saw Blades

A. This information is my own research and from a discussion among professional saw shops

Saw Cleaners

It is important you clean saw blades before regrinding especially if you are also going to be brazing tips or welding shoulders. The questions come up as to what is the best cleaner.

Sawfiler Opinions

Victor Da silva
I came up with the tank cut in half & water heater element years ago, except I used an old galvanized pressure tank, which had thicker walls. I use Saw Kleen, distributed by J Tool Express, which, according to the manufacturer, works better when heated. Heating any solution will help soften the pitch & gum, making it easier to brush off.

That being said, I eventually moved up to an ultrasonic tank, which really works great. I still use the Saw Kleen and heat it to about 175 degrees. Brand new units can be costly, although they are a great investment. I searched E Bay for a few weeks until I found a unit that could handle 12" blades laid down or 14" stacked on an angle. I put my saw blades on a galvanized carriage bolt with washers in between and can fit several stacks in at the same time. Nasty old chain saw blades have the gunk brush right off and the hose takes care of the rest.

Bob Cook
You can buy sodium hydroxide/Lye at most janitorial supply houses in 50 # bags for around $2.00 a pound. A stiff wire hanger suspending each individual saw blade from a rod across the top of the open drum will allow you to soak more saw blades at a time without the weight when removing them. A good machine coolant concentrate in the rinse water will let you drip dry the blades without rusting.

Mr Neil Franklin, Marietta Saw
Removing residue on plastic and Corian-cutting blades. I use a very concentrated solution of NaOH (sodium hydroxide) to loosen it, and then wearing long rubber gloves, I scrub the blades with a stiff plastic bristle scrub brush. What doesn't break loose with that procedure, I'll hit with a wire wheel on a bench grinder.

Rob Rzasa, Equipment Ltd.
We have a very good machine that will clean all types of blades and tools. We offer an ultrasonic tool cleaner in two sizes, one for saws up to 16" and another unit for saws up to 26", both machines will clean in excess of 24 to 36 blades at a time in about 5 to 7 minutes.

The easiest thing to find is: Red Devil Lye. A 16oz bottle costs about $ 4.00, we used to get it at Lowes but not every store carries it. The last time we bought some, we got it at Home Depot.



David Farris
I just ordered a drum of powder from ZEP with product number 9878 and is called heavy duty vat stripper and it says that heating the mixture works best.

Stan, Aksarben Saw & Tool, Inc.
I too use a solution of sodium hydroxide, however maybe not strong enough. Then we wash with soap and water, clean the edges, and polish the plate.

R.S. Ponton, ICE
Cut a 52gal steel drum around its "belly" forming 2 half tanks. One is used as a cold water rinse tank and the other is used as a heated sodium hydroxide (NaOH) soak tank.

The NaOH soak tank is constructed as follows: Purchase a 220V hot water heater heating element at a hardware store. It must be the straight type, a not folded-over type. Mount
it into the side of the tank at the bottom.

Drill random holes in a length of pipe which is long and large enough to cover the exposed length of the heating element inside the tank. This pipe serves as a physical protection guard for the heating element when sawblades are immersed into the tank. Mount it inside the tank at the bottom covering the exposed heating element. Wire the 220V heating element through a standard wall mount light switch and connect to a 20Amp 110V outlet.

Fill the tank with water and add about 6lbs of NaOH. Exercise care because NaOH is a very strong organic solvent.

The heating element can be left on all day and it will not overheat. No regulating thermostat is necessary because the element is 220V but powered by 110V, it provides an ideal soak bath temperature. It is advisable to switch-off the heater at night and on weekends. The heating element typically lasts about 5-6 years before needing replacing.

After a 5 minute soak in the heated NaOH tank, gummed sawblade are quickly cleaned. The worst gummed sawblades might require a few light strokes with a plastic bristle brush.

Add water and NaOH as necessary to maintain a full tank and a saturated solution. Change the solution periodically as residue accumulates in the tank. The solution can be dumped down the drain because it is the equivalent of Drano(tm) and should contain no hazardous products.

A handy "carrier" for holding the sawblades being cleaned can be fabricated as follows: Bend a 24" length of 3/8" steel rod or "all-thread" into an "L" shape with the foot of the "L" about 4" long to serve as a handle. Weld the straight end vertically in the center of a steel plate about 1/4"T x 1-1/2"W x 6"L. This carrier provides a simple means of containing a stack of sawblades while immersing them into the soak tank, the rinse tank, etc.

Stan, Aksarben Saw

Our shop does not heat the mixture. I use heavy rubber tubs used for livestock, big enough to lay 18" blade in the bottom. (Local farm supply store) I made a rod for holding the blades out of 1/2" rod with a threaded end on one end and a small plate welded to the other end. (about 16" long) I made T handle that screws to the theaded end. As we stack the blades on the rod we space each blade with 2" washers made of plastic mud flaps (Local truckstop gives them to us free) This whole arrangment is stored in a lockable cabnet.

Ed Bissell
For information only you might want to be careful what you put down your drain. Several issues to consider;
1. What is it going to do about the working bacteria system of your septic tank.
2. Is your system large enough to handle the volume your going to put in.
3. Last but most important, anything you discharge from your shop is considered industrial waste and must be disposed of properly. Big EPA problem if not handled correctly.

TSP (Tri Sodium Phosphate)
Marty at Carbide saws, Inc. in High Point, NC sent Emily a sample of this with a great drawing just in case Emily didn’t know how to scrub saw blades. They mix 1 pound per five gallons and really like the results.

Our Tests

Dip Tanks
There are a variety of chemical preparations available. Oakite #3 is a product that was recommended to us. It is effective on oxides and scale as well as oil and grease. Oakite is in New Jersey at 908 464-6900.

Pretty well any strong caustic solution from a janitorial supply will work. The problem with caustics is the danger. Hot caustic can burn skin and eyes. Working with a dip tank can make the danger much worse.

Caustic is popular and effective so we tested Easy off oven cleaner in spray can as well as “Oven & Grill Cleaner” from our local janitorial supply house.

Citrus based
We have been hearing good things about these so we tested a couple.
Citrus – from Orange Fresh and
Orange Clean form Orange Clean

We also tested 409 as well as Simple Green and Brakleen

$ / oz.
Brake cleaner - spray can 0.33
Simple Green 0.24
Caustic - Spray cans 0.23
Orange Clean 0.15
409 0.12
Caustic - spray bottle 0.10
Citrus - spray bottle 0.09
Citrus - spray bottle 0.06

One stood out for being really horrible: Brakleen is far and away the most expensive. It is the worst cleaner, it causes cancer and it can explode.

This is a great product for getting in very tight spaces and dissolving greases and other packed crud. However this is not what we are doing with saw cleaning. We want to dissolve a thin layer of light materials on a flat surface.

We tested the sprays with a 2 second spray and 8 wipes. We tested the liquids by holding the towel over the top of the bottle and tipping it to soak a patch on the towel and then giving that 8 wipes.

The cheap oven and grill cleaner was far and away the best cleaner followed by the Easy Off then the orange cleaners (no real difference among them). The 409 and Simple Green were not as effective and Brakleen was the worst at cleaning.

Safety
Brakleen is Carcinogenic as well as having other problems. All the rest cause skin and eye irritation. It looks like the caustic might be worse than the citrus which might be worse than the 409 and Simple Green. All recommend gloves and goggles. Aprons are a good idea and some recommend them. Brakleen mentions a respirator (not just a mask) if there is a possibility that the exposure limits maybe exceeded.
Basically the stronger they clean the more likely they are to irritate skin. Skin has oil sort of like any other oil so this makes sense.

Advice:
1. For best cleaning use a strong caustic such as an oven and grill cleaner.
2. Avoid brand names. Most of the extra ingredients are to make it easier to spray. You also get butane as a propellant and spraying butane in a saw shop doesn’t sound like a good idea.
3. We know one very good shop that uses an orange cleaner and likes it because they don’t have to rinse it off. Caustic compounds can be a bit hard to rinse.
4. Buy concentrate and mix your own. You can drop your cost in half and you can get the mixture you wish.

Two Additional Cleaners

Ram Cleaner & Picoclean 123 orange
Because cleanliness is absolutely essential to successful tipping we have done a great deal of research into it. Whether you are brazing carbide or welding on Stellite® tips you need a clean surface. Any oil or grease can interfere with the join and cause tip loss.
Picoclean is a highly advanced version of the traditional caustic cleaners. Ram cleaner is heavily solvent based with some caustic cleaner.

Some customers are using straight caustic cleaners such as Lye, caustic soda or sodium Hydroxide. Others are using a solvent such as Acetone, alcohol or similar. These seem to be the two most popular approaches and either can be very effective.

No matter which way you go you will almost certainly get better results using a specially formulated cleaner.

Both these cleaners are more effective than just plain chemicals. These cleaners will clean more types of oils and dirts and clean them better. They are specially formulated to rinse cleaner. A specially formulated cleaner will also give much greater service life.

PICO 123 Orange
I had read some articles written by Picoclean personnel so I called them with the problem of cleaning saw blades. They asked us to send them some really dirty saw blades. They then developed a special formulation for saw blades, and similar tools.

This concentrate has a high pH, it is made by PICO with a reacted caustic base to inhibit its effect on base metals such as carbide. This is a heavy-duty, water-based cleaner and degreaser used to dissolve a wide variety of ink, paint and resin coatings, dirt, oil, carbon and grease from floors, equipment and other substrates. It is biodegradable and has a pleasant odor as well as being formulated with non-solvent cleaning additives, surfactants and wetting agents, which are non-flammable and non-carcinogenic. This cleaner replaces flammable, toxic, hazardous solvent based products historically used for this type of cleaning and it forms a stable, low foaming solution when diluted with tap water and is completely free rinsing. Product features and benefits: biodegradable, non-flammable, water dilutable, low volatile emissions, high detergency, petroleum solvent free

PICOCLEAN 123 ORANGE has a variety of uses so that you can use the product for maintenance as well as a production saw blade cleaner.

PICOCLEAN 123 ORANGE does have a strong pH so that precautions should be followed by all workers handling the product and involved with any cleaning processes. After cleaning blades should be rinsed, then a corrosion inhibitor applied to bare steel to prevent any rusting.

Application:
Use this cleaner concentrated or diluted up to 50 parts with hot or cold tap water to remove the ink, paint or resin coatings, dirt, oil, carbon and grease from floors and other substrates. Note: time, temperature, concentration and severity of cleaning should be considered for total effectiveness. Use it as well in steam cleaning, soak tank cleaning, manual type cleaning operations and industrial floor cleaning machines. We recommend that parts are rinsed with water after use and coated with rust inhibitor if desired.

Recommended dilutions:
Dilutions will vary depending on the application. Heated soak tanks will probably run 5-10% and spray bottle hand cleaning about 3-5%. Heavy duty cleaning for dip tanks and fast cleaning. Spray bottles and other light cleaning use it at 4% (25 parts water to 1 part concentrated cleaner.

Ram Cleaner
RAM cleaner is very versatile. It can be used as a mild spray for things such as cleaning furniture and windows, or a full strength cleaner to clean things such as concrete driveways, boats, motorcycles, pools, and lots of other things! All you have to do is adjust the strength to fit the type of cleaning job! For small jobs, all you need is a small amount of RAM on a damp cloth or sponge, and wipe. RAM can clean tough problems such as rust, road tar, degreasing car engines, glue, and soap buildup.

Ram cleaner is based on several very potent solvents with some caustic cleaner added as well. It comes highly recommended to us in spite of the cost. See cost comparisons at the end of the article.

Safety Comparisons
Both cleaners are designed with safety as major consideration. However pitch, tar, grease, oil and many other substances are chemically similar to people so cleaner that affects them will also affect people. Read and follow the MSDS and the label.

Cost Comparisons
Ram Cleaner concentrate retails at $40 a quart while the Picoclean 123 orange concentrate retails at $15/ gallon. A quart is the minimum from Ram and a gallon is the minimum from Picoclean. If you buy a 55 gallon drum of Ram cleaner the concentrate is $0.06 per ounce and $0.011 diluted for heavy use. A 55 gallon drum of Picoclean is $0.05 per ounce as a concentrate and $0.005 per once diluted for heavy cleaning. Ram Cleaner has a heavier discount schedule than Pico does.


Dilution for Heavy Cleaning
Ram recommends 5:1 and Pico recommends 10:1 This makes the Ram cleaner for heavy use $0.25 per ounce diluted ounce while the Pico cleaner is $0.012 per ounce for heavy use.

Other Options
There are a variety of chemical preparations available. Oakite #3 is a product that was recommended to us. It is effective on oxides and scale as well as oil and grease. Oakite is in New Jersey at 908 464-6900.

A clean saw plate is critical to effective brazing. There are people who report good results with just a “gum and go” method. In other words the plates are notched and used with no special cleaning. There are other people who feel that additional cleaning is needed. One of the simplest procedures is to use a room temperature dip tank.

The solution we found was a water based solution of :
Master BXX
(Sodium Hydroxide)
Distributed by Pacific Chemical

This caustic solution should work faster and maybe better if warm or hot. After soaking, the plates are dried and sandblasted where possible. It is important that the plates be used pretty close to immediately. If they are allowed to sit the grease and oil in shop air can redirty them.

Machinery’s Handbook, 22nd Edition
“In order to obtain a sound joint the surfaces in and adjacent to the joint must be free from dirt, oil and oxides or other foreign matter at the time of brazing. Cleaning may be achieved by chemical or mechanical means. Some of the mechanical means employed are filing, grinding, scratch brushing and machining. The chemical means include the use of Trisodium Phosphate, Carbon Tetrachloride, and Trichloroethylene for removing oils and greases.

Soldering Stainless Steel: Stainless steel is somewhat more difficult to solder than other common metals. This is true because of a tightly adhering oxide film on the surface of the metal and because of its low thermal conductivity. The surface of the stainless steel must be thoroughly cleaned. This can be done by abrasion or by clean white pickling with acid.

Muriatic (Hydrochloric) acid saturated with Zinc or combinations of this mixture and 25% additional Muriatic acid or 10% additional Acetic acid, or 10 to 20% additional water solution of Orthophosphoric acid may all be used as fluxes for soldering stainless steel.”

The Electroplater’s Handbook
This recommends a 50/50 mixture of Benzene and Carbon Tetrachloride. This removes mineral grease and is followed by a caustic solution to remove animal greases. A recommended solution is one pound of Sodium Hydroxide per 2 1/2 gallons of water used hot.

A good caustic cleaning solution with abrasive action is:
2 ounces sodium Hydroxide
10 ounces Sodium carbonate
2 ounces sodium triphosphate
1 ounce sodium silicate
1 gallon water”

Metal Finishing Guidebook & Directory
“Degrease with a vapor degreaser or clean in a solvent emulsion such as a detergent containing naphtha. Then use an acid pickle to prepare the metal.”

The Brazing Book, Handy & Harman
“The surface must be clean of oil, grease, rust, scale, oxides and just plain dirt. If they are on the surface they will form a barrier between the braze material and the base metal surface. Oil will repel the flux and leave bare spots that will oxidize during brazing causing voids. Other kinds of oil and grease can carbonize forming a carbon surface over which solder will not flow. Braze material will not bond to a rusty or otherwise oxidized surface.”

Henley’s Formulas for Home and Workshop by Gardner D. Hiscox, M.E.
“The parts to be joined must be free from oxide and thoroughly clean; this can be secured by filing, scouring, scraping or pickling with acids. The edges must fit exactly, and be heated to the melting point of the solder.”

From saw users on the Internet

I did an Internet search. Here are recommended cleaners in alphabetical order. All of these have people who strongly favor them. Many have people who oppose them. Some I would not use for health or safety reasons. All can be dangerous. For MSDS info check

409
Pro Pride Heavy Duty Cleaner Degreaser' from 'Smart and Final'
Ammonia
Arm & Hammer washing SODA
Black Maxx
Bladesnbits
Boeshield Bit and Blade cleaner
Borax
brake fluid
bug and tar removers for cars
Castrol degrease
Castrol Super Clean
citrus-based cleaner
CMT Formula 2050
Dawn dishwashing detergent
Dawn Power Dissolver
De-Solve it
Dish Soaps (For a Dishwasher)
Do All machinery cleaner
Empire Blade Saver
Fantastic
Fast Orange hand cleaner
Freud fresolv(?)
Fume Free Easy Off Oven Cleaner
Gasoline
Goo Gone
Goof off
Goop
Greased Lightning
Hand Soaps
Hand Washing Dish Soaps
Hot tap water and a nylon brush
Kerosene
Krud Cleaner from HD
LA's Awesome Original Cleaner and Degreaser (undiluted)
Lestoil
Lye - a half teaspoon of lye and a drop of detergent in a quart of water
M.E.K
Mean Green
methyl hydrate
Mild Detergents
mineral spirits, but will use Naptha, Acetone, Toluene or gasoline if that's all I have.
most degreasers or citrus cleaners
Mr. Clean
Naphtha
Oil Eater
Orange Glow
Oven cleaner works well too
OxySolv, from Woodworker's Supply
Purple power
Rocklers cleaning kit
Rolloff
Scrubbing bubbles bathroom cleaner
Simple Green
Simple Green Xtreme
Solvents
spray carburetor cleaner
Spray Nine
strong coffee for long term soaking
Sudsy ammonia
TSP or tri sodium phosphate
Varsol
Washing Soda
water - just soak the overnight in a pan of water then scrub with a soft bristle brush.
WD-40
Woodcraft Resin Remover
Zep Purple


Can cleaners hurt carbide?
First, there are thousands of grades of carbide so discussing the properties of carbide is like discussing the properties of wood. Therefore, I suppose, everybody is right.

Freud is an excellent organization with a fine reputation. If they say that caustic solutions damage their blades then I believe them. However that is not what my research has shown on other grades of carbide. It is not what my research has shown of Freud blades either. I think there may be a bit of an effect but too small to be of practical concern. See the SEM argument above.

I think maybe this whole caustic thing started with my research. I have two patents (5,624,626 and 6,322,871) where we use a caustic solution to change etch the surface of tungsten carbide and related materials so we can braze them. This gets changed on the Internet over and over.

However the caustic has little or no effect on the carbide by itself. When you run an electric current through the material, as in EDM or in electro etching, the caustic solution serves as a medium to carry the current and the current acts on the difference in electrical susceptibility of the tungsten carbide and the cobalt to remove material. In order to make any practical difference in the surface of the carbide you need an extremely strong caustic solution and a lot of current for a long time.

The whole point of our research was to develop saw tips that stayed sharper much longer than carbide. To do this we wanted materials that resisted chemical attack of any kind. (See Forintek ((University of British Columbia)) report) Our saw blades cut green cedar, MDF, OSB and everything else you can think of.

Chemical attack is one of twelve factors we assess in building superior saw blades. Email me for a complete list. We are working on getting it on the web. It is in my book Building Superior Brazed Tools.

The handbook of Physics and Chemistry shows Cobalt as being soluble only in acid only. Even then an acid attack will create an inert surface on the cobalt that will slow or prevent any further attack.

I do not know what braze alloy Freud uses. Common braze alloys are about half silver and about a quarter copper and zinc with maybe a little nickel or tin or manganese. (AWS Bag-3, 7, 22, 24, etc.) Chemical attack on copper or cobalt as a pure metal is different than a chemical attack on a metal alloy. Iron corrodes differently than steel which corrodes differently than stainless steel.

Much of this argument is similar to arguing about whether you can lose weight by getting your hair cut. You can but it is not practically important.

Again I do not know about Freud blades but most blades are not significantly affected by any commercial chemical cleaner. In our test we found that BBG grill cleaner from a janitorial supply store was cheapest and worked best. Simple Green was good.

Anyway, that’s what my research shows. If you are interested I have primary sources for this.

Can cleaners hurt braze alloy?
When we want to remove braze alloy we use a combination of acids such as 1/3 hydrochloric acid, 1/3 Sulfuric acid and1/3 water. This works but is horrible strong.

We have soaked braze alloy in oven cleaner for a week with no discernible damage to the braze alloy.

Summary
Cleanliness of all the parts is an essential step to successful brazing. Clean parts braze well. Dirty parts cause trouble. Oil on steel or carbide causes problems a couple ways. 1. It contaminates the braze alloy and makes it less effective. 2. It forms gasses and causes bubbles in the braze alloy. 3. It burns and creates free carbon and carbon compounds. Carbon is terrible for brazing. That’s why so many people use graphite blocks for brazing fixtures.

Tank maintenance
Use deionized water or softened water to mix coolant. This avoids the build up of hard water scale as water evaporates over time. The longer you want your coolant to last, the more important it is to use deionized water.

Control oil buildup. Use a skimmer or throw an oil absorbing pillow in occasionally.

More Information:
http://www.cleanersolutions.org/ - Cleaning solutions and solvent substitutes
http://www.mntap.umn.edu/ - University of Minnesota, Minnesota Technical Assistance Program
Pico clean - http://www.picochemical.com/
Ram cleaner - http://www.buckeyeinternational.com/...ram/index.html

[Wayne Cannon]

I, too, found that Woodcraft's "pink stuff" and Empire BladeSaver work faster than CMT, Rockler, or Boeshield Blade 'N Bit. I haven't tried kerosene, oven cleaner, or Simple Green.

Here's a test/review from Wood Magazine comparing blade cleaners (re-published on Empire's web site):
http://www.empiremfg.com/products/in...0cleaners2.pdf

[Jules Dominguez]

The amount of buildup and how long you go between cleanings may have a lot to do with the relative utility or lack thereof of the cleaning materials. I admit to not cleaning blades until I notice that buildup is affecting the cut.