The best way to MEASURE

[Lee Schierer]

A sure fire measuring system is to measure with a micrometer, mark it with chalk and cut it with an axe......


I measure with a Stanley measuring tape or 12" scale. I use the same one for all measurements on a given project so I don't have to deal with tape errors. I make pencil marks with a .7 mm mechanical pencil (.5 mm lead is too thin and breaks too easily).

For duplicate parts I like to set stops on the cross cut guide to get all pieces exactly the same length.

[Glenn Clabo]

Craig,
I was taught and continue to live by the "If you don't measure it...you won't screw it up" rule. I just completed an entire bathroom...from total rip out...to custom vanity and closet doors...without using a measuring stick once. In place marking...templates...mockups work. Measuring devices don't.

[David DeCristoforo]

"...what would be considered "very accurate"...the next step up..."

http://catalog.starrett.com/catalog/...sp?groupid=703

For a caliper, this is my favorite:
http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=4440
because it's steel, has a nice "fit and finish" and reads in 64ths instead of hundredths or thousandths.

[Greg Cole]

One item I'll comment is that since you are making kitchen cabinets, you may wind up using the metric system.
Modern cabinet design is often based upon the 32mm system for design, and fabrication. Regards, Rod.

To add to that, most sheet goods today are really measured in millimeters and converted to the next closest fraction. And milling boards you can mill to metric dimensions just as easily as imperial, least I can & do.
If you opt to use metric measurements, you might as well "slave" the tooling you buy to match. As in don't count on a design with a 12mm dado to be snug if you use a 1/2" dado stack etc etc etc. The conversions are close, but close doesn't mean good.
You can drive yourself bonkers on this subject. Don't get into tiny machinist measurements with wood, it was once alive and still moves after it's dead.

Cheers.
Greg

[J. Z. Guest]

As others have said, the most reliable way is if you dont have to measure, don't. In other words, mark according to what is existing, rather than measuring it and trying to measure again and cut again. This isn't always possible, because one has to start somewhere.

Lee Valley sells something called setup blocks that will take care of anything you need less than 4" or so.

Story Sticks also work. (where you cut the first stick to size and use it to set machines for every major dimension in your project)

The "clamp-together sticks" trick is a good one too. What is that called? It has an official name. For that to be reliable, I don't know that one could rely on a spring clamp. A C-clamp or two would be better.

Tape measures - the trick with these is to make sure they match your ruler(s) and squares. I accomplish this by bringing the blade of my Starrett 12" combination square when I'm shopping for a tape measure. I'll go through the whole rack of tape measures in the store to find one that matches right down to the 1/32". My 6" rule is also a Starrett, which matches the combo square. Also with tape measures, remember that they change over time as the connection between the tip & tape is worn. For instance, if you let the tape snap shut, it will elongate the holes that the tip is attached with and every measurement on that tape becomes stretched out. So check your tape measures frequently and don't let them snap shut. I agree that tape measures are not the best way to go, but they are so convenient it is hard NOT to use them.

Marking knives' scribed lines are more accurate than pencils, but harder to see. But they have the added benefit of preventing tear-out on cross cuts. (instead of the spinters breaking loose further down, they always break where they're scribed)

One thing I'm going to do in the future is replace my beloved 6" Starrett rule with a hook rule; this will speed up measurements from and edge. (i.e. most of them)

I'm going to try the sticks more in the future.

[Jerome Hanby]

I buy all good stuff and the same brand tape measures. Helped 1000%.

That makes me wonder. I recently got the Incra TS-III joinery system and later found a deal on an 18" Incra T-Rule. Since they are all the same brand, think it's a safe bet that those (and other future Incra items) measurement scales are identical?

I guess if I ever get around to getting the things out of their boxes, I could check that myself

[mike holden]

[quote=Jerome Hanby;825671]That makes me wonder. I recently got the Incra TS-III joinery system and later found a deal on an 18" Incra T-Rule. Since they are all the same brand, think it's a safe bet that those (and other future Incra items) measurement scales are identical?

Nope! Bad Assumption! The only thing in common is their wholesaler.

The method of measurement is not even the same. The joinery systems rely on scales printed on mylar and the interlocking plastic ridges - the rules are either etched or stamped on and rely on registration to one end.
I *might* make the assumption that two rules of the same design would read identically, but *never* two rules of differing design (and a 6 inch and a twelve inch are differing designs)

All manufacturing processes have variances. When you get to higher accuracy measuring tools, the tools will come with both a form showing its relationship to a national standards of measurement and what the tools relative accuracy is - 4, 5, 6 decimal places. Oh, and the temperature at which the accuracy applies - usually 20 degrees celsius.

Going from one measuring device to another is always a bad idea.

Best is not to measure at all, but transfer the data directly by marking where the cut needs to be or using miter gage to transfer angles, etc.

Mike

[Jacob Reverb]

Excellent thread topic and some really good replies. I have only a couple tidbits to add.

1. Use measuring instruments that you trust, that you'll take care of, and that you'll consistently use. My Dad was a mech. engr. and got his employers to buy Starrett stuff that he then liberated, so that's what I use: A Starrett combo square and 6" rule. They're well made, and I trust them to be accurate, and that in turn makes me more careful to be accurate. It's like having a really accurate gun: If you're confident that it'll put the bullet exactly where you put the crosshairs, you're more careful to put the crosshairs exactly where they need to go.

2. When laying something out using a rule, tip the rule up on edge such that the engraved graduations touch the surface you want to mark. Then put the point of your sharp mechanical drafting pencil (or better yet, the scribe from your combo square) into the engraved graduation on the rule and transfer the mark to your work.

[Brad Shipton]

For accurate measuring tools, layout and straight edges you need to take a look at McMasters. They give you the specs for the tools so you know what you are getting. If you want a 24" digital caliper or a 10' straight edge milled to within .005", they got it.

Brad

[Cliff Rohrabacher]

My next big project is kitchen cabinets and I've realized I need to be in the sub 1/16ths of accuracy which is maybe the width of a pencil line or blade width.


And while I can now cut that with the rail system no problem, I'm still not 100% confident I getting that kind of accuracy in my initial measurements of markings.

If you are building rail and stile cabinet doors
You'll need to make jigs and fixtures for all the repetitive cuts involved.

[Rob Will]

Walgreen's Drug store carries some nice metal rulers in the school supply dept.

A dial indicator caliper is handy to have in the shop.

I use my Biesemeyer fence to measure a lot of things that are cut on the table saw.

I use a pattern jig on the router table to make EXACT copies of curved shapes.

My CMS station has four adjustable cut-off stops.

And last but not least. I use American made pencils becaue Chinese pencils only work with the metric system. (Walgreens and the office supply stores sell American made pencils).

Rob

[Jim Becker]

I only "measure" the primary components for something like a carcass...everything else is taken directly off the workpiece as I progress. I also use story sticks to help with consistency. I try to avoid a tape measure as much as possible and have several steel rules of differing length that are highly accurate. (Lee Valley) I have to say that the repeatablity with my slider has also helped increase the accuracy of my work...although if you make a mistake on the first piece...ALL of them have the same mistake! (DAMHIKT!)

[Stan Welborn]

I'm a big fan of "relative dimensioning". Use the work, not a rule. When I do measure though, I'm realizing I'm using metric measurements more and more. It's just plain easier after you get used to it.

[david kramer]

I'm also a big fan of all-metric. I used a table saw for a long time and never noticed that the tape measure was off. The first time that I used the metric side of the rule it was obvious that the ruler was off by about 1/2 mm relative to a steel rule. This is about 20/1000. It was immediately apparent with the naked eye.

I'm also kinda weak at dealing with fractions that are powers of 2, and I get really messed up when I go from 64ths to thousandths. It's just oh so much easier to talk in mm.

I searched high and low to find an all-metric tape measure in the US. You can find the half metric, half imperial ones on line. Eventually I bought one when I travelled out of the country. So if someone knows of where one can order a good quality, all-metric tape measure in the US, please speak up.

David

[Stan Welborn]

nevermind. Misread post


David, try the FastCap PMMR=True 32

http://www.fastcap.com/products.aspx?id=346