Cabinet building advice needed

[jim gossage]

i am building a new house and plan to build it as if it is the last one i will live in. i would like the kitchen to be a showpiece, and am thinking of building the kitchen cabinets myself - perhaps out of birds eye maple. i have built bookcases, cutting boards, tables, etc, but never as major a project as kitchen cabinets. anyway, can you all give me some recommendations on your favorite books, articles, and websites for this project? i may decide against it in the end, but i figured i would start with some research. thanks

[John Keeton]

Jim

I have no experience building cabinets, but have a fair amount of experience in overseeing home construction. If you want a "showplace", the design and layout is more critical than the construction in my mind. I have seen some kitchens that really standout, but the cabinets were moderate quality construction. It was all in the design. It is hard for woodworkers to accept it, but even cheaply built cabinets will last decades if they have good hardware and solidly built drawers.

I would suggest that the first step would be to take your floor plan/kitchen layout and have some custom cabinet shops give you some suggested designs and quotes. You will not be taking advantage of them, as you may well decide to go that route. You will then have an idea of the cost versus your labor, and you will have the benefit of the design ideas of those that do this on a regular basis.

I think there are several posts with pictures of some beautiful kitchens done by creekers that would be able to offer more. One that comes to mind is Craig Thompson http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...kitchen&page=3

Good luck on your home, and I look forward to seeing some pics of the ongoing progress should you decide to accept your mission!!

[Larry Prince]

i am building a new house and plan to build it as if it is the last one i will live in. i would like the kitchen to be a showpiece, and am thinking of building the kitchen cabinets myself - perhaps out of birds eye maple. i have built bookcases, cutting boards, tables, etc, but never as major a project as kitchen cabinets. anyway, can you all give me some recommendations on your favorite books, articles, and websites for this project? i may decide against it in the end, but i figured i would start with some research. thanks

As part of your research get the DVD "cabinetmaking made easy" from http://www.Sommerfeldtools.com.

If you use their tongue&groove method of construction you'll find it fast and easy, and your boxes will be dead square.

I'd also suggest using pre-finished ply for the boxes. It's pricey but it will save you huge amounts of time, material and hassle since you dont have to finish the inside of the boxes.

Pocket screws are also used in this system but their use is judicious and always placed in places where they won't be seen.

The DVD is a bit heavy on Sommerfeld products but you can get them from other places, with the exception of the router bits. As far as I know there's noplace else to get bits which will cut the required offset tongues & grooves. Plus, if you do decide to buy from Sommerfeld you won't be disappointed as it's all top quality stuff.

One other recommendation I'd make is to use the Hettich Quadro IW21 drawer slides with the soft-close feature. You can get them from Custom Service Hardware http://www.cshardware.com/ and save about 1/3 on the cost over the Blum slides mentioned in the DVD.

I've been using this system for about a year and a half now and I have several tips and recommendations I can pass on to you if you decide to go with it.

It's very easy to underestimate the time and cost on a project like this. Do your planning, CAD your boxes and use a good sheet goods estimator to develop your cut diagrams. This last alone can save you an untold amount of money and hair pulling.

Usual disclaimers apply. I have no affiliation with any company mentioned except as a consumer.

[Larry Richardson]

I just finished doing my kitchen with the Sommerfeld bits (T&G/Doors). I have to agree with Larry on this one.

The time savings of resetting bit heights are worth the difference.

I used smartcut for sheet layout. big time saver .

Biggest PITA is the drawers. You have to follow the directions very closely! (I used Blum BluMotion)

I wish Marc Sommerfeld would put the basic dimensions of the cabinets in writing somewhere. For the next set of cabinets (Phase B), I am using 23 15/16 to split a sheet of ply exactly in half.

Biggest tip: when doing doors or frames WRITE what goes where. I (finally) learned that putting a R(ail) and a S(tile) and marking which side is what would have saved me about $100 in wood!

It is all worth it though. I converted a kitchen that had one wall of 12 ', with the sink, stove, and frig into 2 walls of cabinets. All told will be around $2500 for materials ( ya know, tools don't count ). but ymmv.

Good luck.

Larry

[Jim Becker]

I can't help you with specific references, but cabinets are actually very doable by most woodworkers. They are just boxes... Granted, you have a number of choices on how to build them, but that's ok, too.

Personally, I build the boxes using pocket screws and glue. Just simple butt joints. Put the good side of the sheet stock on the inside. For "end of run" cabinets, do an overlay panel that matches your door/drawer design to finish things off. I also prefer to build a separate toe-kick area so it can be installed and leveled before the carcasses. I find that much easier to get things level. Although, I really did like the adjustable legs on some Ikea cabinets I recently used in a laundry room...those were a snap, too, and I may use that technique for something in the future.

[Chris Stolicky]

Biggest PITA is the drawers. You have to follow the directions very closely! (I used Blum BluMotion)

I agree that hardware is key. The Blum hardware is really durable, and Blumotion is really cool (and increases value).

Function is also really important.

Being a woodworker, as embarrassed as I am to admit it, and am still learning to accept it, I remodeled by kitchen last year (well, its never going to actually going to be complete ) with Ikea cabinets. Granted, they were the nicer one's offered. Once you get beyond the (heavy) veneer boxes, the wood doors and Blum hardware are great. But the layout is what makes people want to be there and increases the desired 'wow' factor.

Good luck in what ever you choose. Just remember, no one, other than those with an eye and appreciation for woodworking, will really ever care what the boxes are made of. Its the doors and panels that make the big difference.

[Jim Becker]

I'm also in favor of using good hardware. In the long run, it just doesn't pay to use cheaply made slides, etc. Consider this...even if your woodworking isn't perfect, folks will notice when drawers move smoothly and when drawers and doors close quietly. I made the mistake of choosing some hardware poorly on my own kitchen renovation back in 2003 and trust me, it's something that is difficult to remedy later.

As an aside, I just had my first real encounter with Blumotion recently on those aforementioned Ikea cabinets in the laundry room. It took me about, oh...just a few minutes...to walk quickly to my computer and order them for all the cherry vanities and cabinets I had built and already installed in the addition. No question, they add that extra special touch of quality. Worth the investment.

[Scott Loven]

Kreg tool has a good booklet on cabinet building with pocket screws. They also have a DVD on trim work that is excellent.
Scott

[J. Z. Guest]

Jim, I'm thinking of doing some cabinet work in my mom's home. I bought Danny Proulx's book on kitchen cabinets. This is the "modern" approach, in which he uses the most efficient material for the job. Usually, this means melamine particleboard cabinets, with solid face frames & doors, European hinges, and adjustable feet.

At first, I thought this was kind of sacreligous. But the more I thought about it, the more it made sense. Melamine is ultra durable and easy to clean. In a carcase construction, it is plenty strong. The parts you look at all the time are still beautiful solid wood.

By using adjustable feet, one avoids the hassle of shimming to get everything lined up.

By using European hinges, one has room for adjustability at time of install, to make sure everything lines up perfectly. Also the "mortises" for them are simply 35 mm holes. Plywood is stronger than melamine PB in many cases, but I think inferior in this case. Were you thinking of building the cabinet cases out of BE maple too? That would be one expensive project, and it would only be appreciated by you. Would you sit there on the floor admiring for a while every time you stoop down to get a pot?

I believe Jim Tolpin has a book that details more traditional cabinet construction. Maybe this is more what you're after, but at a minimum, don't discount modern hardware.

Edit: Tip from Norm is to use more drawers in place of the lower cabinets. You will thank yourself later as you don't always have to hunker down to see what is where.

[Ed Peters]

easily within reach of the average carpenter. I use some techniques, while unorthodox to some degree, create better cabinets that are more durable and easier to install.

First things first. While prefinished plywood is convenient, it is just as easy to do yourself and pocket the savings. When you bring your plywood home, give it a quick sanding on the better side (destined for the inside of your box) lean it up against the wall outside your shop and spray with clear lacquer thinned at 1 part thinner to 7 parts lacguer. This will dry pretty fast and provide a good, first seal coat

Uppers: Dado the sides and back for the shelves and bottom panel. Rabet the sides for the back and top panel. I use 3/4" material for everything, including the back. I then pre-drill through the dados prior to assembly so I don't need to layout the hole locations on the outside. Attach the shelves and bottom panel to the backs with glue and screws. Roll the assembly onto it's side, run a bead of glue on the edges and mate the side panel and screw. Do the same on the other side, drop on the top and there is an upper.

Lowers: They are the same except they get stretchers front and back rather than a top panel.

Hanging my uppers is pretty easy because I cut a 1/2" deep dado into the backs about 2" or so wide a uniform distance down from the tops. I rip 2" wide strips of 1/2" plywood and attach these to the wall from which I then have a place to hang the cabinets. All that is left to do then is fasten them to the studs.

That's a quick synopsis of my way. If you are looking for step by step, I'm sure you could get in touch with any of us on this forum to go over the details.

Ed

[John Morrison60]

Jim

Norm just had a whole series on making all the cabinets for a kitchen.
He went over design, layout, construction, installation, hardware choice, etc......
Might be a good series to get DVD to review the scale of the effort, and get some design/construction points.
I have never had the time to do cabinet construction, but I have had a fair experience with layout design, installation, and finish work on several kitchens.
I agree with John Keeton, a good design, quality materials, careful installation is more important than hand built cabinets.
Good Luck
John

[Jim Becker]

Edit: Tip from Norm is to use more drawers in place of the lower cabinets. You will thank yourself later as you don't always have to hunker down to see what is where.

I absolutely agree with this. Outside of places like under the sink, three drawer lowers are infinitely easier to use. Heavy, full-extension slides make for smooth and complete access, too. This is what I did in our kitchen and I'm so glad I did.

[Mike Davin]

I just finished my first set of kitchen cabinets for my daughter. Udo Schmit's book was my constant companion. Could not have done it without that book.

[Jeff Wright]

One of the most difficult decisions for me in planning my new kitchen is which "System" to use. I have built some prototype cabinets using Sommerfeld's offset tongue and groove set and really like the outcome. Sommerfeld adheres to the concept of first building the face frame, and then build the box to it to insure a right-sized box. His T&G joints assure a square build and perfect alignment of the box floor to the bottom rail on the face frame. You can also allow for a scribed end by reversing the bits, something that is explained in his DVD on cabinet building. I just finished building a glass door using his bit set for same and the results were excellent, especially the slot bit that made a slot to receive that rubber/plastic thingy that holds the glass in place yet allows you to remove it should the glass get broken.

Here is link to a prior post showing a completed cab using Sommerfeld's methods:

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...316#post630316

[Ray Schafer]

Ed,

You use 3/4" material for the back, and you put it in a rabbet. That makes sense. how deep do you make the rabbet? What I am getting at is this ... if the wall is not plumb, and you need to scribe the back to match the wall, do you have some extra material on the back for making that adjustment? ... or do you simply shim and cover?