Don't hate me because I'm beautiful

[John Makar]

The day has come. After +35 years of all things computer from Launch Guidance systems to terminally dull COBOL accounting programs I am eligible for a permanent modest stipend sufficient to maintain a steady diet of Top Ramen.

The house/cars are paid for, the youngest either grads from pre-med in December or flips burgers, and I don't care which nor what his mother says.

Got a small shop lovingly decorated in tastefully selected vintage Delta, Porter, Bench Dog, even some [limited] Veritas/Lie Nielsen; has its own breaker box and external dust closet.

So, whatcha all think? Is it possible to create a business doing this stuff and actually generate positive cash flow.

Preference runs to boxes and Art&Crafts. No period stuff.

[Ted Torres]

The house/cars are paid for, the youngest either grads from pre-med in December or flips burgers, and I don't care which nor what his mother says.

Wow, Congrats John!

I find myself in a similar situation, but youngest is going to grad school with a full paid assistantship...thus mom & dad get a BIG Raise!

Anyway, although I have an outfitted shop and have created some neat stuff over these past 32 years or so, my fair WW skills dictate I Keep making sawdust as a hobby...maybe in the future...!?

Good Luck with your endeavors...(WW, a great way to retire)!

Ted

[Jack Camillo]

My house AINT paid for, the kid is ABOUT to start college, OWE on all the cars... I certainly wouldn't expect to make a GOOD living woodworking. But, good thing I like my job. Best of luck to you.
jack

[Terry Sparks]

Congrats John, I envey you!

I still have 3 more years to go until my youngest (two of six) graduates three years from now. Some day I will be joining you in that retirement idea of sitting in my shop on a Saturday afternoon, watching Joe McKnight and the USC Trojans run all over LSU for another National Championship... while I happly work on a cabinet.

[John Makar]

Mine's a fourth semester senior and will be fifth semester when he finishes or else. I told them tuition, books, fees, room and board at in-state rate to a four year public university. I figure if they can't survive after undergrad the problem will not be solved by additional education. I went on the G.I. Bill in the '70's. The terms I offered were much more generous than anything I saw.

But, I figure WW as a new career, not retirement. I've got maybe 40 more years, and there is no way I can do more time in corporate or government. Probably my current hobby of pissing off executives is career limiting in IT anyway. Still, the expression on their face when you tell them what the consequence of their action is really going to be is rather satisfying. Craftsmen just have such a different perspective on things.

Right now all I see is the opportunity, and how is learning a new WW skill different than learning C++, except that C++ lasted what, 10 years maybe. Learn, try, fix. WW just seems to be a odd little niche industry where somebody gets an idea, creates a product that a bunch of people figure out how to go off and do new and creative things with, and we all end up happier. SOMEWHERE in all of that is a place for me. I'm just not sure I can make any money at it. I'd like to at least be able to cover the material costs.

[Bruce Volden]

SOMEWHERE in all of that is a place for me. I'm just not sure I can make any money at it. I'd like to at least be able to cover the material costs.

Well John,

5 months from tomorrow (1-02-09) I pull the plug on the post office where I have fixed processing machines for +/- 30 years!! I'm sure YOU won't be able to make any money WW'ing so I'll just come on out and take some equipment off your hands

Seriously 'tho, congratulations.

Bruce

[steve reeves]

My situation is very similar to yours.

Unless you can find some "niche" market for something it's a very very tough row to hoe.

You may make a few bucks doing "craft" type items but the pay is poor (as are the clientele for such). I've seen them come and go very quickly at the flee markets and "craft shows" around here for a couple of decades at least...

High end custom furniture is about the only place I can see making any money and unless you have the contacts (and reputation that takes years to earn) that's also a tough row to hoe.

Forget the cabinet business... those guys have a tremendous investment in machinery to get the jobs done quickly and unless you've got an installation/sales crew at the ready you'll already be out of most jobs.

I've been fortunate through contacts that I made over many years to get a bit of good paying work building upper end office spaces with lots of built ins... however, I made those contacts not through woodworking but on the golf course! and then referrrals from there.

You have to remember most anything you can build someone is already geared up and mass producing it.... even much of the "custom" work now days is done by shops with CNC machines that can lay it out on a computer and have automated machines cut all the parts... Assembly, dusting and finishing are about the only things still done by hand and even those are semi-automated.

I know one local fellow who does "okay" building nothing but bird houses and porch swings... but it's nickles and dimes if you know what I mean.

However he stays busy in his shop, doesn't need the money to pay his bills and it keeps him happy. That's at least half the battle.

Good luck and congrats on being near to having the last bird grow mature wings..!!



I'm not familiar with your work so I'm speculating quite a bit...

[Dave Tinley]

John-
I know you have heard this before, but it is very true.
"Life is too short, and we dont get to start over again"
January of 2007 I turned 50, I had a real good friend that was about the same age as I was and he had a good wife. They were coming back from a trip to Austin, she had a sudden stroke and passed away. It really opened my eyes.
June of 2007 I retired from the automotive field after 26 years.
I had a decent shop, tools all paid for and a pretty good supply of lumber.
I advertised on Craigs list and met some people thru the chamber of commerce. I have stayed pretty steady this past year, even with this "recession", I am doing ok. Now my overhead is very low, and I work as hard as I want, but I would not trade it for any full time job I can think of.

Yes, it takes a few years to get established, and in the meantime you hone your skills by trying a variety of projects. I know someone said to forget about building cabinets, and while he is partially true in his assestment, there is work for the small cabinet shop. Lots of the bigger shops dont want to mess with the one, two or three cabinet job. It's just not feasable for them when they can do a whole kitchen, etc.
Look at doing some bathroom vanities. People really like those, they are small but can be built to look like furniture. And as a plus, it gets your name out there and I have found that the same customer that wants a vanity, desides they need some other small cabinets.

Sorry for the long post, but if you truely believe that woodworking is something you want to do, then go out there and do it. Worse thing that you can do is not give it a shot, and ten years down the road, wish you had, cause ya aint gonna get them years back.

[John Makar]

What you just said is what I suspected. I've looked into a couple of other post-retirement second career paths and seen the same thing. Simply, it takes time, capital, heavy commitment, and a fair amount of luck. At 56, the five - ten years it takes to get up to journey level status closes many options regardless what the experts on the new retirement say.

All of which ends up leading me back to the 'do what you love' thing. I'm not convinced it's impossible however. It may be though, that the only people that can work at this are post-retirement boomers who can be very patient. Still, the web changes things.

[Victor Stearns]

John,
I vote for the jump in with both feet and don't look back! While I can only hope to get the two children through some sort of college over the course of the next 5-years, I would love to follow my passion in woodworking. I too have a well stocked shop and look forward to finally telling the boss have a nice life, I know I will!
Good Luck
Victor

[Ken Fitzgerald]

John....I won't hate you 'cause your beautiful....But I'll turn green with envy!

I'm hoping to do something similar in about a year. I started working on oil rigs in 1964 at the age of 15 and have been supporting myself and a family since. Next year I hope to retire and plan on doing something part time....whether it's working at a Borg....a hardware store.....and yes some woodworking. I hope to have my turning skills at a high enough level that I can at least pay for the addiction. I don't want to have to resort to burglary, etc.

Congrats and Good Luck!

[John Makar]

Eons ago I was involved in business development for a large software services company. We were constantly getting beat out of smaller jobs by itty-bitty shops that had zippo overhead while we were struggling with executive ego syndrome.

In the end we had to focus on only major contracts, which are rare and extremely competitive, and look for any way we could to pick up money on the back-end of the contract. The customers were mostly smart enough to know that, and the whole thing was a dysfunctional cycle that I was glad to finally escape. Lots of stress and airline tickets, and bad food and worse hotels. Every time I've been fired my life immediately improved significantly.

Small is Beautiful and can be competitive. It's good to hear from people experiencing it in the here and now. My goals are modest, and either way I get to have fun this time.

[Mike Schmalzer]

I know I am in a little bit of a different boat, as I don't have kids and not too many bills but you are in a pretty good position. I am only 26 and just took the dive. Some friends, family, past co-workers thought it was unrealistic and it turns out I am making almost 3x more this year than I was years past and probably as much or more as some of my engineer friends. But the key thing is I am my own boss and happy. If things don't end up working out, oh well, at least I tried.

I found my niche in high end custom furniture. Word spreads fast if you do good work,

[Loren Hedahl]

I was fortunate enough to retire early . . . . I was only 48.

Going into it, I decided I was not going to get into photography or woodworking. Those were only things for codgers!

Well, in the meantime the kids grew up, got married and we now have grandchildren. Guess what. Yup! I have a nice digital SLR.

Also, the house began to look fairly decrepit . . . especially the bathrooms and kitchen. Guess what. Yup! I bought a Festool circular saw and a small DeWalt benchtop saw and started in on the RV to get some experience.

Neighbors saw the inside of our RV and now I have done several more! Bathroom is almost done and my wife keeps showing her friends . . .

I really didn't want another career.

[Roger Wilson]

You might consider going to the Turning forum and discussing this as well.

Turning pens and bowls etc. is much less labor intensive per item and if you are willing to do commercial/architectural spindle work, from what I've read, you can make some money. Add some teaching and you've got a second career.

Good luck.