How to finish red oak?

[Anthony Watson]

I am using red oak for the first time to build a small dining table for my in-laws. I have a few more days of construction, then I'll be starting on the finish work.

I'm planning to use Minwax gloss poly (oil based) for the final finish, as I already have that on hand and have had good experience with it in the past.

I'm still debating whether to stain the oak or leave it natural. I stained up a few samples and polyed them tonight to see what they look like tomorrow.

I want a smooth finish for the table top, so I just ordered some Behlen water based grain filler in a "natural" color. I hear most folks prefer the oil based, but I just don't have the time to let it cure before finishing.

I've never used grain filler before, so I assume I apply this to the bare wood before staining? Otherwise I would think I run the risk of sanding through the stain to remove the grain filler.

Also, will I run into problems applying an oil based stain over the water based grain filler?

Any tips would be appreciated.

Anthony

[Nancy Laird]

Anthony, almost every piece of furniture in our house, plus my kitchen cabinets and a lot of other built-ins, are built of red oak; it's our wood of choice for the house. Except for two pieces of furniture where we went out on a tangent (one with a Puritan Pine stain and one with pickling(!)), all of the pieces have a coat of Watco natural stain - only to pop the grain - and about three coats of sprayed lacquer. I can't speak for a dining table, since both of mine are tile-tops, but I can tell you that my living room tables are just as pristine today as the day they were brought into the house--about 6 years ago. The great thing about lacquer is that if it does get scratched, you can just rough up the area with a little sandpaper (320 grit) and spray the area with rattle-can lacquer, and you can't tell it has been repaired.

Grain filler goes on first--then the stain--then the final finish. You won't believe how smooth your oak turns out when you get it filled.

Now, make sure that the picture police don't come after you and post pictures of the table after you've finished it.

BTW, where are you and where did you get the red oak?

[Thomas Pender]

Since it is a gift and you want it to be perfect, I suggest you make sure you give the stain at least 72 hours to dry before the poly - it will work better. My .02.

[Anthony Watson]

Nancy,

Since I can't seem to find small samples of stain, I have many small cans of various colors sitting around. Most are brand new, but I just didn't like the color on the project I was working on. I had been planning just to poly the bare wood, but out of curiosity I wiped on some Minwax "Golden Oak" stain I had on hand, and thought it really looked nice. I'll have to wait and see what it looks like today, but I'm thinking I'll probably stain now.

I'm in SW Washington state, and red oak is about the only oak available around here. I normally buy my lumber at the home centers (Lowes/Home Depot), but for this project I found a hardwood supplier in town who actually sold red oak for $3.69 bd/ft compared to $6 bd/ft at Lowes. There was more waste with the random lengths and widths, but I think I still came out ahead.

Like I said, this is my first time to make anything out of oak. Almost all of the projects I build are made of birch plywood and poplar face frames, or out of standard #2 pine. The other woods I have used frequently are cedar and a bit of redwood. So working with a hardwood is new to me...

I have always used wood conditioner before staining the pine and poplar, is this step necessary with red oak? I don't want it to turn out splotchy.

Thomas,

I usually let the stain dry overnight before poly'ing, but that often turns into a couple of days when I'm short on time.

I'm thinking of staining the parts before I glue everything up, to avoid stain collecting in joints and whatnot. Naturally, I won't get any stain on the mortises or tenons.

Anthony

[Nancy Laird]

I'm in SW Washington state, and red oak is about the only oak available around here.

I have always used wood conditioner before staining the pine and poplar, is this step necessary with red oak? I don't want it to turn out splotchy.

I'm thinking of staining the parts before I glue everything up, to avoid stain collecting in joints and whatnot. Naturally, I won't get any stain on the mortises or tenons.

Anthony

Anthony, we have never used a wood conditioner on oak. Hubby has used the grain filler on a couple of pieces, but not a wood conditioner. The oak doesn't splotch.

If you stain parts before glue-up, be sure to mask the places that are to be glued. You may get a little bit of creep under the tape, but that's better than slathering the stain (and/or finish) on the mortises and tenons.

(Aside: where in SW Washington? My former in-laws were in Longview.)

[Drew Lavis]

Hi Anthony,

I've done a lot of work with red oak, mostly cabinetry and small furniture.

My standard finishing technique starts with Rockler's 'wonderfill' grain filler. I follow that with an oil finish. I like Watco's danish oil, topped with either a paste wax or an oil based poly. I've never had troubles applying the oils over the water based filler. It's an easy and forgiving method.

I rarely use a stain on red oak, so I can't speak to that. But the wood filler should prevent any blotching. Also, take care when sanding the filler. It puts out an awful lot of fine dust.

[Prashun Patel]

On the few pieces I did on red oak I find it to take stain very well.

If it were me, I'd use Danish oil.

[Anthony Watson]

Nancy,

we have never used a wood conditioner on oak.

Good to know, thanks!

where in SW Washington? My former in-laws were in Longview

We've lived in Camas, WA for the last 17-18 years, Vancouver before that. I went to high school in Woodland, and middle school in Kalama. We were actually just up in Longview a few days ago...

Drew,

I've never had troubles applying the oils over the water based filler.

That's a relief. Thanks for the info!

Anthony

[Howard Acheson]

There are a few things you need to learn about using grain filler. I stronly recommend you learn how to use it on some scrap, not on your project. Only when you become familier with it, would you use it on your project.

[Thomas Pender]

I have used Timber Mate with red oak (white oak, cherry and aaple too) on numerous occasions for grain filling (for oaks) and for "oops" - stuff is non-toxic, water soluble, etc. It also works great with Watco (my preferred danish oil). I really agree with the others about how Danish oil makes the grain pop and that you should use test peices - my shop has many here and there. But, to reiterate - watch those drying times and to borrow a phrase from Norm, the most important thing with using Danish oil is shop safety. Do soak those rags and get them out of the house (or wherever). Any fireman will tell you spontaneous combustion is real!

Re glue - I will stain first on areas I think are likely to get glue slop on them and I use a damp sponge to wipe the glue. Works for me.

[Sal Giambruno]

Let me second Howie's admonition about the grain filler. You should become absolutely familiar with its use before attempting it on a real project, especially since you will be using water-based which gives you very little time to work. I suggest you work small areas at a time - do not try to do the entire table, or even the entire table top, at once.

I've been using Behlen's oil-based filler quite a bit recently, and even it, with its relatively forgiving nature, can be a challenge if your timing or technique is off.

I don't understand why you say you don't have the time to spare for using oil-based filler - it only takes overnight to cure, and you'll only need one or two applications. You can get away with just one application on everything but the top. I've been able to get glassy smooth surfaces on African Mahogany with as little as one application . . .

With oil-based filler, be sure not to forego using the Burlap - nothing else works as effectively at removing the residual filler.

Good luck.

[Kristopher Ayers]

After reading through this, I feel encouraged. I am making a red oak cabinet for displaying some military memorabilia, and after doing a simple search for grain filler, is neutral or clear the best to go with? I'be also been asked by a friend to make one for her too. I just want them both to come out as best as possible.

[Scott Holmes]

Are you planning to color them? What look and feel do you want when finished? Many oak pieces allow the grain and deep texture to show. Filling will give you a flat smooth surface that can be finished in high gloss and look like a mirror. With red oak that will be a chore; it can be done. So are you looking for a high gloss finish that MUST be mirror flat or something that can have the deep textured grain showing?

[Stan Calow]

As far as staining, I'd look at the room the table was going to be in, and see if there is a dominant wood tone, and try to match that. Golden Oak being the most common color around here, for example, its almost the default stain for red oak. A table is big enough feature that if it contrasts too much with surroundings, it will look off, no matter how good it looks on its own. My two cents.