upgrading shop with grizzly

[Jerry Nettrour]

Just had some questions about Grizzly. I have heard great things, only have bought a few small items from them. I have been woodworking full time now for the past 3 months but my equipment could use upgrading. I have been tempted to purchase a few machines that I feel will increase my efficiency and quality. Currently I use a rockler router table and incra jig but used a shaper with power feeder at a commercial shop last week. I see grizzly has an affordable price on a 1 1/2 hp Grizzly shaper for $500. I am considering buying 2 of them for my door making bits. Since it is in it's own cabinet and much heavier than my router set up I think it has to be an upgrade. I just hope the motor is not too small to run a 3" panel bit. I have always done well with my 2 1/4 hp Hitatchi. I also think their molder/planer that runs 3 separate molding knives would be great. I would never use it for planing, I use a DW735. They ask around 750.00 for the molder/planer. I have cut crown with router bits and also a cove table saw jig but feel having a dedicated machine designed for this purpose should produce higher quality results maybe even faster. I have even priced my suppliers for custom moldings cut and it appears based on their prices I could pay for the machine after about 6 jobs. I am also thinking about a 6" Grizzly jointer. Any thoughts from someone one way or another would be appreciated. Thanks, Jerry

[Bill White]

The Grizz stuff in my shop has been all I expected (and needed). You will find the service after the sale is very good as well.
Bill

[Gary Click]

If you have done well with the 2-1/4HP Router you will think that the Shaper must be 7-1/2HP. There is just no comparison.

I have a 2HP Shop Fox and find it very adequate.

[Peter Quinn]

If you are doing this for a living, save your money and get a 3HP+ shaper with an 1 1/4" spindle and at least a 1/2HP but preferably a 1HP feeder. I would rather have one big shaper than two small ones. I have a grizzly power feeder, it will get you going and works reasonably well, but if you ever get a shot at a steff/maggi you will realize every corner that was cut to hit the price point. Not the best of breed and not the equivalent of the serious professional stuff, but not terrible. It is what it is. Entry level machinery at rock bottom prices.

I won't say that a 1 1/2HP shaper wont be an upgrade from a router table, but it won't be the kind of upgrade that will allow you to grow over years and offer the wide versatility of a more powerful machine. For instance I bought a used Delta HD shaper for my home shop that I payed for in one afternoon doing a long custom molding run that I doubt would have been possible on a smaller machine. Wish mine were bigger. Given the state of the economy I see many used deals near me presently so keep a look out for those in your area. Shapers are pretty basic machines and a good used model may offer more value than a cheap new one. A 3HP+ machine will allow you to run panels in one pass that barely need sanding. A 3" panel cutter is frankly puny, the bigger doughnuts offer a smoother cut given their geometry. My smallest is 5 1/2".

In the industrial production setting where I work the few Grizzly machines that have been bought have not shown well versus the real industrial gear, with the exception of their oscillating spindle sander. It may be a matter of expectations or perspective, but from mine I'd rate what I have used as not bad, but not great either. Probably good starter gear for a small shop or start up. In the end the tools you can afford to own now will make you more money than the ones you wait 10 years to buy, and forget buying big items on credit, that can be the grease pole to bankruptcy in wood working.

I would and did wait to buy a bigger shaper than you are considering, making money with a two router table setup in the mean time. You can make a fine product with a router, just that you can make it much faster with a shaper (or two). Thats my $.02X10 for free and it may be worth less than you paid!

Best of luck in your endeavor.

[Jon Grider]

I certainly cannot offer advice based on the experience of an industrial production shop like Peter, but I can tell you from my own part time shop that a 6" jointer is not adequate. Do yourself a favor and get an 8'' at least.

[Peter Quinn]

I certainly cannot offer advice based on the experience of an industrial production shop like Peter, but I can tell you from my own part time shop that a 6" jointer is not adequate. Do yourself a favor and get an 8'' at least.

I helped unload a 20" jointer with a 98" bed and roll it into the shop today. Makes everything else I have used and every thing I personally own look inadequate! It looks more like an aircraft carrier than a tool. A 6" jointer is a bit small for commercial work but I know lots of guys that make it work. If your work involves things that can be flattened with a 6" jointer it might get you going, but its not hard to outgrow.

[Rick Moyer]

There is enough '6" vs. bigger' jointer discussion to keep you busy for a while, but I will say that I chose an 8" (0586) and am well pleased with it.
I have a small hobby-only shop. Another issue with the 6"ers is most are 120v and less than 2HP, possibly less than what you would want in a commercial environment. Seems to me there is a big jump from 6" to 8" without necessitating a big $$ jump. Can't help you with your shaper decision.

[Andy Pratt]

Jerry,

I would say that if you buy rough lumber and face joint your boards, as most people end up doing, you'll regret the 6". Hardly any rough stock is 6" wide or less, so your labor and waste go way up. 8" gets you a great "diminishing returns" bonus for a small price increase, and 12" is something you'll probably live with forever. If you're buying surfaced lumber or don't plan to face joint then it's probably not as big a deal.

All this being said, I had my 6" jointer for a year and sold it for 80% of what I paid, so it won't cost you much if you still want to do 6" and end up changing your mind later. I ended up going with a 12" j/p combo if it matters.

Andy

[Rick Fisher]

I used to have a 1hp Shop Fox Shaper. I ran it without a feeder and had some spooky encounters. I would never buy or own a low powered shaper again.

I upgraded to a 3hp General International Shaper with a 3/4" spindle and a 1hp Steff power feeder. I love it.

I have never used another brand of feeder and cannot offer any comparison. Where the shaper is concerned, go for power. Its safer and does a better job.

[Bob Aquino]

I have been in the process of upgrading my shop too, but for the most part its to get rid of all the Taiwanese stuff I got over the last several years. And you want to know something? Generally the stuff I have bought is cheaper and orders of magnitude better in quality and engineering. It started when I replaced a delta 6" jointer and lunchbox planer with a Makita 2030. Beautiful little machine, a bit loud but the tables are very long and the finish it leaves is very nice. Cost of the machine plus new rollers and some parts was still less than what I sold the jointer and planer for and it saves me some floor space.

I had wanted a larger lathe, we were using a jet mini and a trip to Dempseys in Richmond VA landed me a Delta 46-450 single phase. Only thing I had to do to it was reattach the bed to the base and rewire the power cord. Still have the Jet mini, Mamma says its her lathe and I cant sell it. At least they are both 1 x 8 threads on the headstock.

Next up was a 20" delta bandsaw that replaced an 18" delta Taiwanese version. Probably made a few bucks on this swap and that includes buying a VFD for the 3 phase motor and a set of carter guides for the new saw. Now I have a saw that has an infinitely variable speed control and probably weighs double what the 18" saw did. And 2 extra inches isn't bad either.

A lone ebay find, I managed to snag a 15" Clausing VS drill press to replace my old Craftsman model. Now truthfully that one cost me a bit over what I managed to sell the Cman for, but it only needed a bit of a cleaning and it was running like a champ. It also cost me a day from work to drive up near Charlottesville and pick it up. What a terrible day off from work that was...

Last swap happened yesterday, I picked up a Powermatic 30A belt disk sander to replace a Grizzly 1014. Powermatic is going to be a bit more expensive but I think its worth it. Haven't gotten in to it yet, but for sure I am going to have to do bearings on the motor and some finishing work.

Bottom line, you can find older equipment if you keep your eyes open and get lucky. Many times the initial cost of the equipment is relatively low so you can put some money into it to bring it back to full working order and still have less out of pocket cost than the new stuff. Also keep in mind that if you do decide to sell some of that Grizzly equipment down the road, you will probably get back somewhere between 50 to maybe 75% of cost. Selling your refurbed old equipment, you will probably break even or might even make a few bucks on the transaction. Plus you have the benefit of knowing that machine pretty intimately.

I will say the griz and shopfox and other imported stuff isn't bad equipment. It will do the job for sure. But old iron, especially equipment that was built for commercial use is just not in the same league. If you are handy, bringing this old iron back is a very satisfying experience. But it's not for everybody. I started with the Makita about 6 months ago and am now on what is probably my last upgrade since I have no more room. Sometimes you just hit a wave and keep going.

[Steve Rozmiarek]

I started with the Makita about 6 months ago and am now on what is probably my last upgrade since I have no more room. Sometimes you just hit a wave and keep going.

Bob, I'll take that bet! You know a 36" in Tannewitz, Oliver, Yates, ect. only takes up a tiny bit more room....

[Jerry Nettrour]

thanks for all of the input. It is great. I am a small guy/shop. I stay busy though, no shortage of customers at this time. I get jobs from entertainment centers, built in book shelves, cabinet reface jobs and so on. I have been buying my lumber 13/16, straight lined and surfaced. I have leaned more towards a 3 hp shaper. i built 25 doors last week with a large delta shaper in another person's shop and it was great. Also, I agree if you can get good used tools then that is the way to go. Most of what I currently have I paid 1/2 retail or less for. I did see on CL where a big industrial shop was closing up, they were listing a 7 1/2 hp powermatic shaper for 350.00. They did not leave a number so I emailed them and got no response. Either they mispriced it accidentally or got too many email responses.

[Peter Quinn]

Jerry. Keep calling. I ran 2000LF of material (rails and styles) for 1 3/4" passage doors this morning on an old Powermatic 7 1/2HP shaper, no sweat. I couldn't do that level of production with my 3HP. I just kept pushing material through back to back for 3 hours non stop, and another guy jumped in behind me! Little or no chatter, machine barely if at all changes tone when nearly 2" of wood hit the cutter. Those big PM shapers ain't fancy, but they were built to last and have weight where it counts.

Just don't call me to help you move it!