Jointer Decision

[John Pennisi]

I'm taking a hard look at the Grizzly G0490X which is the large 8" with helical cutterhead and 3 HP motor.

The price for this looks to be somewhere around $1000 before shipping. Please excuse the lack of knowledge but I cannot understand why Powermatic's 8" jointer with helical head and only 2 HP is more than $2500. I would really prefer the power of the 3 HP. I understand the Powermatic has a great reputation for quality, but can anyone help explain some of the reasons why Grizzly's machine is so much more moderately priced. I have no experience with the Grizzly brand but can't help but be intrigued by their low prices and seemingly solid machines. Thanks!

[Andy Casiello]

I think there are a lot of "reasons" why Grizzly is priced so much less - lack of dealer network, focus on price point, difference in perceived brand "status", and perhaps some quality differences. I have a Grizzly table saw, a Grizzly band saw and a Grizzly jointer. I've looked at all the major brands when I have gotten ready for each purchase, and keep ending up with Grizzly. For my money I have a hard time finding the value in other brands that warrant double the price of Grizzly. My Grizzly gear is high quality and their customer service is great. What's not to love?

[Scott Myers]

My thoughts will seem to wander a bit in this post as it is long winded, but hopefully I will make my point. Let me say upfront that I don't have any first hand experience with Grizzly equipment.

I am in the process of re-tooling up my shop. I went through an absolute fiasco in buying the heart of the shop, the new tablesaw. After returning one saw and 2 months of agony, I finally got the Sawstop. Yes, I considered Grizzly. While quality and design is BIG with me, in the end, it really came down to safety, as I have young CURIOUS boys. It cost me three times what the Grizzly would have cost, but it is like comparing apples and oranges. But to be fair, comparing the guts of ANY other table saw to a Sawstop is like comparing a Bently Automobile to most other cars. They are just on different planets with different design parameters. (I'm an engineer and have an eye for design detail. It's a curse sometimes!)

In this post-process of buying the first saw, I crawled all over the saws I could find in showrooms - Steel City, Jet, Powermatic, General and a few others. There are some big design philosophy differences in some of these brands and they are difinitely going for different demographics. Unfortunately, I could not dissect the Grizzly, as they are not local to me and they are only sold through Grizzly. HOWEVER, if you call them, they will give you local references to people who are participating and have purchased the Jointer you are considering. You can then look them up in information and give them a call and perhaps even set-up to go look at their machine. This is what I would do if I were you.

So now, I am looking to upgrade the jointer and planer. The combo units from Grizzly look enticing, as their price is good and I can get a 12" jointer in the process. (I did get a reference from Grizzly for someone that owns one in my area and spoke with them.) But their discrete units are attractive too. I like the idea a combo unit will take less floor space, and I am limited there. I am planning on actually making a trip to Eastern PA (I live in Western Ohio) to crawl over the various machines I am considering buying. I really want to see what the quality is on their various machines. I get mixed reports on Grizzly equipment. Apparently, they have some machines that seem to be much better built than others. I have had a couple of long conversations with their tech support and they will hint that their Taiwanese machines are better (in general, but not always) than their Chinese built ones. They also have some differences between their "Extreme Series" machines and the others.

One other HUGE factor in what makes Grizzly's prices so much lower than the competition is they are sold direct and not through retail stores & distribution. I have worked in distribution for 25 years and know that in order to survive, you have to make some pretty good average margins on the equipment you sell. So this is A LOT of it also.

The upshot to buying through distribution is that you get local support, although I am find that this is really not so much so anymore. In the end, you end up working with the factory technical support if there is a problem with anyone, including Grizzly.

This takes me back again to my recent table saw buying experience. I took people's advice here from the Creek and a certain major chain woodworking machinery store owner's advice on the cabinet saw purchase. In the end, it was completely lacking in design and manufacturing quality to suit me. But yet others on here rave about them. Clearly, this particular brand is designed to meet a certain price point and serious corners were cut to do so. It was a "business decision" made by that company in the saw's design. I am happy for those that like their saw even if I think it's not up to my standards. It's all a matter of what your expectations are and how much you are willing to pay to get those expectations satisfied. (No, I won't disclose the name of that manufacturer publically, as it would start a big flame thread which I don't have the patience for.)

Does Grizzly break the normal rule of "You get what you pay for"? I can't say. In the end, you just have to go look at a machine and judge for yourself. What may be great for you might be junk for me. It's all in your expectations. But since you mentioned Powermatic, I will guess that you want top shelf, but the price scares you. (Don't we all WANT top shelf?) If you have drooled over the Powermatic, you might find that most others are going to fall short of the attention to detail that Powermatic puts into their equipment. General is another that comes to mind in that "no corners cut" category. Neither of those manufacturers cut many corners, which is certainly part of their higher price. But I am sure the Grizzly will joint wood just fine, as I hear their tech support is pretty good at supporting their equipment. If you want all the really nice machining details and precision handwheels, you may have to go back to the Powermatic, but you're gonna pay for those nice details and machining precision. But again, I don't have any real experience with Grizzly's attention to such details... yet. I'll let you know after I visit their showroon.

OK, I'm done now.

[Howard Norman]

John, I have the original G0490 jointer. In fact mine is from the first shipment to the US. It is a solid machine and the only regret, and that is a minor one, is that I don't have a spiral cutter head on the machine. Quite frankly there has only been a couple of times where the spiral cutter would have helped. I would recommend the G0490.

It will help if you have a second pair of hands when you are putting it on the stand but you could do it by yourself. That assumes you have some sort of mechanical lifting help. I just used a come-a-long fastened to an overhead floor joist myself.

[Dave Verstraete]

John
I have the exact jointer that you are looking at. I am very satisfied with its quality and performance. I looked at the powermatic also before buying the Grizzly. I haven't looked back.

[Ben Martin]

Perhaps buying use is an option? I purchased a 1979 Powermatic 60 for $600.

[glenn bradley]

Another satisfied G0490X owner here. The 3 horses are nice as even a 1/4" edge cut in ash like I did today is very low effort and comes out very smooth. This is not my normal use of a jointer; I generally set it at about 1/32" and face joint, edge joint and move on to the planer.

The tall fence is nice and the integrated mobile base comes in handy for me as my jointer parallels my lumber rack wall. When I need to get to the rack, I just step down on the base elevator and swing the beast 70* or so. I marked the bases corner locations on the concrete with felt pen (real high tech) so I can swing it right back.

The spiral head, the 3 HP, the mag switch, long beds and high fence along with I don't know how many people here and elsewhere who vouched for it made my decision. You'll have to decide for yourself ;-)

[Steve Vaughn]

This jointer shows up in the buy it now/live.com/MS cash back program right now at 25% off. I believe that there is a $200.00 cash back limit though.

Steve

[John Bush]

Hi John,
I have the G0609X(spiral ) and it is great machine. I had a PM 60B(newer 8" model??) and upgraded to the wider Griz due to a big pile of rough stock over 8" wide needing milled. I was able to sell the PM at a favorable price because it is .......well.......a...PM. I live close to a Griz showroom and have seen all their "stuff" many times and I frankly don't see the PM value added difference. My 60B was a great machine, was manufactured in Taiwan, castings and finish level similar to the Griz line, and cost was 25% more than the comparable Griz. The PM would be great if the price matched, maybe used, but the Griz is a better value at retail cost.. I have a Griz BS, belt sander, spindle sander, and DC cyclone and haven't needed any service so that hasn't been an issue for me. The spiral head is worth the extra $$$$, too. I milled lots of brd ft of mahogony and purple heart and had limited tear out problems. The next Griz for me will be a 20" spiral planer...unless I can find a PM @ the same $$$$.Good luck, JCB

[John Pennisi]

And especially you Scott for the lengthy reply. Very thorough and useful. I am leaning towards the Grizzly jointer but do have a few reservations. It does seem to be a large machine and am a bit worried about how it's dimensions will fit in my close to 500 sq. ft. basement shop. Many of the other 6-8" jointers have smaller bases, but I guess the reason for this is that the Grizzly is a "parallelogram" style which seems to account for the large size. As you can see I also don't know a whole lot about the parallelogram aspect other than (I think) both infeed and outfeed tables can adjust/move simultaneously as one unit. Any help on this would be welcome also. Thanks again to all for the help and though I favor the Griz jointer, my mind is not yet made up.

[Jim Kountz]

For the guys who said they own this jointer, how do you like the levers vs handwheels for height adjustment? Do you find they work just as well or maybe better? I too am agonizing over a jointer choice however I know I will get a Griz just not sure which model yet as they have I think three or four @ the 8" size.

[Don Bullock]

...It does seem to be a large machine and am a bit worried about how it's dimensions will fit in my close to 500 sq. ft. basement shop. ...

John, I can speak to the size issue. Yes, it is big. Mine is currently in my shop that is half of a two car garage. Because the G0490 has the mobile base that is very easy to use, I move it up against the wall when I'm not using it and roll it out when needed. For a small shop the size of the base isn't the problem. Those long beds really stick out on both ends, but they give the length needed for some longer lumber. Other things in the shop can go under them when I store it against the wall. When I added the cost of a mobile base G0586 jointer the price was close to the G0490 (I bought it on a Summer Sale). I think right now the G0586 with a Grizzly mobile base is $664.95 and the G0490 is $775 (difference of $110.05) which is not quite as close as it was when I bought mine.

Jim, As far as comparing the levers to wheels, since I've not use a jointer I don't find any problem with the levers. I guess if I was used to the wheels I wouldn't like them.

I've been very happy with my G0490. Except for lifting the jointer up on the base, it was very easy to set up and adjust. For me that was important due to the fact that I've never owned a jointer and only used one ( as 6" Jet) once before I bought it.

[Robert Chapman]

John - I too have a fairly small shop but wanted an 8 inch jointer. So I looked for smaller units with a helical cutter head. The Jet JJ-8HH is only 66.5 inches long which works just fine for me as I rarely joint anything longer that 6 feet. The helical cutter head works very well but will give you a very slight scalloped effect along the length of the board which will only be visible under just the right light or after you have applied some finish. Unfortunatly the motor started making a racket after about 5 hours use - Jet is sending me a new motor.

[glenn bradley]

For the guys who said they own this jointer, how do you like the levers vs handwheels for height adjustment?

Wheels vs. levers and the cutterhead style were the two things I agonized the most over. I am happy to say that despite my concerns, the levers vs. wheel argument turned out to be a non-issue. The levers works very easily and are very controllable. After my first time playing with them I have never given it a thought.

[Cary Falk]

For the guys who said they own this jointer, how do you like the levers vs handwheels for height adjustment? Do you find they work just as well or maybe better? I too am agonizing over a jointer choice however I know I will get a Griz just not sure which model yet as they have I think three or four @ the 8" size.

I just got the Shop fox W1741 which is the Grizzly G0490 twin brother.

I went out of my way years ago to get my 6" Jet jointer with wheels because I thought I would like them better. Having played with the W1741 this weekend, I must say I like the levers much better. They are much quicker to adjust and is just as accurate. When the knives dull then I will probably add a spiral cutterhead because I hate changing knives.