Carbide turning tools: Harrison specialities?

[Al Wasser]

Keeton says "nothing but scrapers". Do I detect some bias against scrapers?

[John Keeton]

Keeton says "nothing but scrapers". Do I detect some bias against scrapers?

Al, no bias here. I just do not use scrapers much, though folks like Reed Gray and others can work wonders with them.

For me, learning to turn is somewhat akin to learning to drive. IMO, it is better to learn to drive on a standard shift as that is when one is developing the various skills used in operating a motor vehicle. If you don't learn to drive a stick shift at the beginning, it is doubtful you ever will. I feel the same about the carbide tools. They probably have their place, but starting out, I think one is best served by learning the various tool techniques of gouges. If, at a later point, one wants the ease and quickness of the carbide tools, then have at it!

For the type of turning I do, I just have not seen the need. Obviously, they are very popular and work for a lot of folks.

[Chris Kennedy]

Thanks for the advice. I have been looking at a whole mess of different types of chisels and the like, trying to decide what would be a good initial purchase. I am considering several "starter" type sets so that I have something to experiment with and then specialize as need arises.

Chris

[Richard Allen]

I have never used the carbide tools pointed to. I have used a couple of Hunter tools from time to time. I find turning quicker and more predictable using bowl gouges. Perhaps if I had started off using carbide tools (they were not available when I started14 years ago) I would find those tools quicker and more predictable.

As more experience is gained with the carbide insert tools there will be more demonstrations using carbide insert tools. As more woodturners see carbide insert tools being used to good effect more turners will add the use of carbide insert tools to their workflow.

[Vernon Jenewein]

Not an endorsement, merely a video showing use: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qadKSh2du0
I bought one and have just set up my small lathe in the small quonset. I needed to make a table long enough for the bed extension and clean out some accumulated "junk" that was needed for room. Then, I wired it with 120 on that side today. I'll give it a try soon. I'll interject my thoughts, even though I'm just a newbie turner. Sharp point/edge is what a tool is, any tool. I've worked with hardened steel at Boeing when I worked there years ago. Carbide is sometimes the only thing that will do and keep sharp enough, long enough to be feasible. My tool I bought has a 6" radius, and you can get others as well, even round. Nothing is quite as tough and resilient for cutting as carbide. Brittle to a T. But, it has a sharp edge that, in wood, should remain sharp long after you've had to sharpen those HSS tools several times. I've seen diamond shaped carbide inserts that would be perfect for doing a lot of fine work. Delicate touch is what is needed. Scraper? Pretty much all of them are scrapers to some degree. Wood has to meet and edge somewhere and the momentum just chips it away. Carbide's unforgiving sharp edge it more likely to "cut" than to scrape away wood. Nice thing about them is when the DO get dull enough to warrant changing, it is merely a 1/4 turn and you have a fresh new edge to cut with.
Also, here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjF8JM714EU

[Kirk Miller]

I will echo what has been expressed and say to get a class scheduled. Then after the class take time to practice what was taught at the class. Check around for turning clubs that may offer classes. I bought a cheap set of tools from harbor freight and still use them to this day. I have many different tools now but several from that set have are in the top 10 of my favorite tools.

[Tim Rinehart]

Chris, some good advice here especially with regards to getting the basics down first with conventional HSS gouges.
There is a difference among type of carbide tools out there, with some that are pure scrapers and others that do shear the wood fibers like a gouge riding a bevel.

Since most folks are familiar with both Easy Tools and Hunter Tools...I'll break it down using them for a reference.

Easy Wood tools are scrapers. Period. Most all their tools (hedging in case I forget an exception) are presented in a way that has the flat topped (zero rake) cutter horizontal to the lathe and applied like a scraper. Because they stay sharp a long time, you can get very nice, very predictable results ... but not much better than you'd get with a sharp HSS scraper that is kept sharp. The EWT hollowing tools are made very well, and I know several experienced turners who swear by them for inside of hollow forms after seeing how well they work. They will leave tearout in some softer woods from my experience.

Hunter tools shear the wood fibers and at the least, shear-scrape. The tools are cupped (positive rake) and are held at an angle to the bed of the lathe to prevent a catch if held horizontally. They take more practice, but when you get the feel of them, they will provide a better surface than scraping, and will avoid tear out in all but the softest woods. Using these for hollowing, and working from the bottom of a vessel...they are pulled downhill to the largest part of the ID of the vessel and depending on shape of tool and vessel, you actually ride the bevel on these. Using them on the inside of the top of a vessel, their approach to the wood is more 'shear-scrape' and still provides a very nice surface finish.

Carbide really excels on hollowing woods that would otherwise beat the heck out of HSS and have you spending alot of time sharpening. Recent work I've done where all carbide was used include cherry burl and red mallee, both somewhat notorious for dulling tools.

Hope this helps.

[Stan Smith]

Yesterday I had written a long post here, but my login got dropped. I agree with all the posters on this thread. I'm hoping that this doesn't mean carbide tools should not be used in favor of gouges, scrapers, and skews. I consider myself to be an experienced rookie. I don't turn all the time because I have another hobby that's also time consuming-music. I just ordered the Harrison 4 carbide tool set. I've been using a couple of the beginner carbide tools and really like them. I did watch the Harrison demo video on their website and my initial reaction was Wow--that tool really can work fast. However, I then asked myself it working fast is what I really want to do. I enjoy watching the curls peel off when using a gouge just as I do with a hand plane. Also, I've found that when I try to rush something, I usually make some mistakes. I like the invention of the carbide tools, but I won't be using them exclusively. I'm down to just a mini lathe now since we've moved to a smaller place. The carbide tools do work well with a mini lathe and I haven't ever used my long and strong gouges with it that I used to use for bowl. I did just also order a bedan tool after seeing a guy turn an egg on a youtube. For me trying new and learning new is really a lot of fun. There's room in the turning realm for all types of tools, IMO.

[Reed Gray]

Okay, scrapers again, I have to comment. I learned to use scrapers out of curiosity. What do those that know how to use them know that I don't know..... I learned scrapers before the carbide tipped tools came out. Two differences between carbide and standard scrapers. One is that you don't sharpen the carbide tips. They can be touched up a bit, but are designed to use, rotate a time or 3, and toss them away. The standard scrapers are very easy to sharpen. The other difference is that generally the carbide tipped tools have smaller cutting surfaces than standard scrapers, which makes them easier to control. That ease of use is only a matter of using the standard scrapers for an hour or two. Like any tool, if you stick too much of it into the wood at one time, you stall the motor, or the tool gets yanked out of your hands if you don't have a proper grip. Well, maybe a third difference, standard scrapers are easier to do a bevel rubbing cut with than the carbide tipped tools. Go to You Tube and type in robo hippy. I have one clip up where I turn a bowl with just scrapers. Learning to use gouges and scrapers is as important as learning how to sharpen.

robo hippy

[Stan Smith]

I agree. There is a learning curve for all tools. I find it very interesting to watch different turners use a single tool for so many different things because they have learned to use that particular tool so well. I guess we all have our "standbys" that we reach for the most often. One of mine is an oval shaped skew. I just made my first Christmas bird house ornament from a kit. With the square carbide scraper I was able to turn a 1/8th inch perch peg 1" long with a small filial on one end. This the first time that I've ever turned something that small and I was surprised that it was even possible. I did a lot of pens this Christmas and I think that's about as small as I would like to go for most of the time.