Outboard capability for new turner

[Lorne Collicutt]

I'm looking at buying my first lathe and know next to nothing about turning. I'm hoping you guys can give me some guidance. I'm in Canada and we don't seem to have very good access to some popular brands like Jet and Delta.

Our local Lee Valley carries the Rikon 70-220VSR and it looks like a reasonable first lathe but the headstock doesn't swivel so you can't do outboard turning. The other option is a General International 25-200 which can do outboard turning. My question is: how important is outboard turning capability and is a small lathe likely to do it well enough to bother with it? I realize that question probably depends on what I would be turning but I'm not really sure at this point never having done it. From watching youtube bowls and vases look interesting and I'd certainly like to try those.

[Bob Mezzatesta]

What part of Canada? My best advice is to find a woodturning club and join. They most often offer basic courses and/or mentoring. You will find the members eager to help you get started. You will experience different lathes, tools, spindles and bowls. It will pay for itself very quickly by avoiding bad purchases. It will also teach you how to keep safe. As the saying goes "you can't know what you don't know"
Cheers and good luck.

[John Keeton]

Bob has given good advice, and I would add this. Outboard turning is usually done to exceed the swing capacity of the lathe. Having a pivoting headstock is one way, along with turning off the end of the lathe with some sort of toolrest arrangement. There are also lathes that permit turning off the hand wheel side of the headstock. But, the lathe must have sufficient power to support the increased capacity or you risk injury and/or damage to the lathe.

In the end, it is as you said - what do you intend to turn?

[Dan Masshardt]

My thought is that those lathes are too small to give any worry to outboard turning.

You should either have fun turning within their capacity and upgrade later or buy a bigger lathe to start with.

Others may disagree...

[Lorne Collicutt]

Thanks. Yes I'm looking into local clubs. You can only learn so much on youtube.

Any thoughts or experiences with the Rikon vs the General?

[Justin Stephen]

Thanks. Yes I'm looking into local clubs. You can only learn so much on youtube.

Any thoughts or experiences with the Rikon vs the General?

I don't know anyone who owns the General lathe nor have I ever seen one. I will say that it seems rather (or very) overpriced and gimmicky for what is in essence a midi lathe. It has the one added feature of a reversible headstock and the ability to turn 19" outboard, but its motor is also small (only 3/4 hp) for a lathe of that size, something that would be exacerbated if you tried to turn anything heavy outboard. A larger platter blank using dry wood would probably be ok.

I would recommend either the Rikon or the Delta 46-460. Both are a little cheaper, give you an additional 1/2" of swing over the ways, have a larger 1 hp motor, and can also rotate 50 rpm slower on the low end. The Delta in particular is a proven performer that many people here own or have owned. It did have some rather notorious power switch issues (I had the problem as well with mine) but I am hopeful that this has been addressed with newer models. The Rikon is a newer lathe that I have not personally used but it seems to get good reviews and Rikon, in general, makes good stuff.

[Robert Henrickson]

Looking into local clubs, and perhaps visiting local turners met through a club, ought to give you some ideas as to what you might be interested in. You have to start somewhere. That said, most of the things I took classes on when I began, I no longer turn (e.g., lidded boxes) or seldom (bowls). After I had the basic skills, I followed ideas that interested me. I never had a lesson on spindle turning, but that is what I have done most in the last year or two.

Outboard turning -- with the larger mass being worked -- not only requires power but enough mass to sustain (relative) stability. It is better to learn the basics of turning before thinking about doing oversize turning, which presents greater problems (and potential dangers).

[Lorne Collicutt]

Thanks. I wasn't thinking of heading directly into turning large items outboard but I didn't want to limit myself down the road if that's where the journey took me. Sounds like that capability is of more use on a heavier duty lathe. General is a Canadian brand out of Quebec. I've read good things about that Delta and that's what I would go with if I could get it but my local tool shop says that Delta has stopped selling in Canada so getting their tools or parts later is hard. I may have to go with the Rikon.

[ron david]

Thanks. I wasn't thinking of heading directly into turning large items outboard but I didn't want to limit myself down the road if that's where the journey took me. Sounds like that capability is of more use on a heavier duty lathe. General is a Canadian brand out of Quebec. I've read good things about that Delta and that's what I would go with if I could get it but my local tool shop says that Delta has stopped selling in Canada so getting their tools or parts later is hard. I may have to go with the Rikon.

where abouts are you?
ron

[Lorne Collicutt]

I'm on Vancouver Island (BC)

[ron david]

I'm on Vancouver Island (BC)

that is still pretty vague
ron

[Lorne Collicutt]

I'm in Nanaimo

[Olaf Vogel]

I don't know anyone who owns the General lathe nor have I ever seen one. I will say that it seems rather (or very) overpriced and gimmicky for what is in essence a midi lathe. It has the one added feature of a reversible headstock and the ability to turn 19" outboard, but its motor is also small (only 3/4 hp) for a lathe of that size, something that would be exacerbated if you tried to turn anything heavy outboard. A larger platter blank using dry wood would probably be ok.

I learned on a General, about 30 years ago, in high school. And have used quite a few Generals since, again in High schools.
The schools must have had a good contract to support Canadian industry. Basically all schools, municipal and provincial shops were General. And they're being sold off now.

And as much as I'd like to support our industry, I have to say, I've been consistently unimpressed.

1 - the design hasn't changed in decades. There's been almost no R&D. Thats ok if the original design was great - its not.
2 - VERY pricey for what you get.

Basically, they're OK quality, mediocre design, very expensive.
Canada did make some great lathes (back around 1880 - 1940) and I use one of those old ones.

Oneway still makes great lathes. I have used those a few times and always been impressed.
They will cost a lot more that the Rikon and are worth it.

BTW - many of the old Delta / Rockwell come up for sale on Kijiji. You can get them for a steal. A good way to go if you are starting out.
Minimize your investment, see if you like this, then upgrade. you'll be able to sell the old Delta for about the same price you bought it. They're fully depreciated at this point!

If you really want to pay >$1000 for a General, then check Kijiji, there's a Wadkin listed right now in Kitchener, for $1200. That would be a massive upgrade from either of the above.
(and no, I'm not associated with the seller, just drooling over the pics. But crap, I don't have any more room in the shop...)

And for a first lathe, I'd skip the outboard turning until you get a better feel for the hobby and what you want to do. The Wadkin has outboard. hint, hint...

[ron david]

also "used victoria" and craigslist.
I am going to send you a PM
ron

[Lorne Collicutt]

thanks. I have been checking for used lathes on various sites but I'm not seeing much of interest locally so far. I'm afraid it might be a bit expensive to get a heavy lathe from Ontario to BC.