Outboard capability for new turner

[Lorne Collicutt]

I'm looking at buying my first lathe and know next to nothing about turning. I'm hoping you guys can give me some guidance. I'm in Canada and we don't seem to have very good access to some popular brands like Jet and Delta.

Our local Lee Valley carries the Rikon 70-220VSR and it looks like a reasonable first lathe but the headstock doesn't swivel so you can't do outboard turning. The other option is a General International 25-200 which can do outboard turning. My question is: how important is outboard turning capability and is a small lathe likely to do it well enough to bother with it? I realize that question probably depends on what I would be turning but I'm not really sure at this point never having done it. From watching youtube bowls and vases look interesting and I'd certainly like to try those.

[Bob Mezzatesta]

What part of Canada? My best advice is to find a woodturning club and join. They most often offer basic courses and/or mentoring. You will find the members eager to help you get started. You will experience different lathes, tools, spindles and bowls. It will pay for itself very quickly by avoiding bad purchases. It will also teach you how to keep safe. As the saying goes "you can't know what you don't know"
Cheers and good luck.

[John Keeton]

Bob has given good advice, and I would add this. Outboard turning is usually done to exceed the swing capacity of the lathe. Having a pivoting headstock is one way, along with turning off the end of the lathe with some sort of toolrest arrangement. There are also lathes that permit turning off the hand wheel side of the headstock. But, the lathe must have sufficient power to support the increased capacity or you risk injury and/or damage to the lathe.

In the end, it is as you said - what do you intend to turn?

[Dan Masshardt]

My thought is that those lathes are too small to give any worry to outboard turning.

You should either have fun turning within their capacity and upgrade later or buy a bigger lathe to start with.

Others may disagree...

[Lorne Collicutt]

Thanks. Yes I'm looking into local clubs. You can only learn so much on youtube.

Any thoughts or experiences with the Rikon vs the General?

[Prashun Patel]

Outboard turning is for large work. Large work requires a large motor and a lot of mass to counter the weight of the cantilevered blank hanging off the outboard side.

It's IMHO not appropriate for a 1hp lathe (I have one). You can turn a lot of things with a 12" lathe (12" bowls are quite substantial). I think it's a great size to start with.

Outboard turning is a niche segment and it'd be a shame for you to spend several $$$$ on one just to find out it's not your bag.

I am certain joining a club is the best advice. I never did - just couldn't find the time - and just jumped into a midi lathe. My experience has been that my midi has served well for creating bowls, some toys for my kids, and chair/table legs. If you want to make legs for furniture, then you may want to get a lathe with an extension. But, that can be purchased later if you want to dip your toes in.

Also, be warned that the lathe is probable 1/3-1/2 of your overall expense. Count on spending roughly the same amount on sharpening and tools and wood.

[Justin Stephen]

Thanks. Yes I'm looking into local clubs. You can only learn so much on youtube.

Any thoughts or experiences with the Rikon vs the General?

I don't know anyone who owns the General lathe nor have I ever seen one. I will say that it seems rather (or very) overpriced and gimmicky for what is in essence a midi lathe. It has the one added feature of a reversible headstock and the ability to turn 19" outboard, but its motor is also small (only 3/4 hp) for a lathe of that size, something that would be exacerbated if you tried to turn anything heavy outboard. A larger platter blank using dry wood would probably be ok.

I would recommend either the Rikon or the Delta 46-460. Both are a little cheaper, give you an additional 1/2" of swing over the ways, have a larger 1 hp motor, and can also rotate 50 rpm slower on the low end. The Delta in particular is a proven performer that many people here own or have owned. It did have some rather notorious power switch issues (I had the problem as well with mine) but I am hopeful that this has been addressed with newer models. The Rikon is a newer lathe that I have not personally used but it seems to get good reviews and Rikon, in general, makes good stuff.

[Robert Henrickson]

Looking into local clubs, and perhaps visiting local turners met through a club, ought to give you some ideas as to what you might be interested in. You have to start somewhere. That said, most of the things I took classes on when I began, I no longer turn (e.g., lidded boxes) or seldom (bowls). After I had the basic skills, I followed ideas that interested me. I never had a lesson on spindle turning, but that is what I have done most in the last year or two.

Outboard turning -- with the larger mass being worked -- not only requires power but enough mass to sustain (relative) stability. It is better to learn the basics of turning before thinking about doing oversize turning, which presents greater problems (and potential dangers).

[Lorne Collicutt]

Thanks. I wasn't thinking of heading directly into turning large items outboard but I didn't want to limit myself down the road if that's where the journey took me. Sounds like that capability is of more use on a heavier duty lathe. General is a Canadian brand out of Quebec. I've read good things about that Delta and that's what I would go with if I could get it but my local tool shop says that Delta has stopped selling in Canada so getting their tools or parts later is hard. I may have to go with the Rikon.

[Robert Willing]

Since you are from Canada look here http://www.general.ca/products/1_gen...he/25-200.html I had the 114 version. The hp may be a little light for boring, but you have enough belt selections to get the torque you need. the 114 I had had issues with the variable speed but they rectified the problem. I no longer have the lathe since I have now had my 2nd upgrade in lathes. The General Int. lathes are good lathes so don't undersell your home brews.

[ron david]

Thanks. I wasn't thinking of heading directly into turning large items outboard but I didn't want to limit myself down the road if that's where the journey took me. Sounds like that capability is of more use on a heavier duty lathe. General is a Canadian brand out of Quebec. I've read good things about that Delta and that's what I would go with if I could get it but my local tool shop says that Delta has stopped selling in Canada so getting their tools or parts later is hard. I may have to go with the Rikon.

where abouts are you?
ron

[Justin Stephen]

Since you are from Canada look here http://www.general.ca/products/1_gen...he/25-200.html I had the 114 version. The hp may be a little light for boring, but you have enough belt selections to get the torque you need. the 114 I had had issues with the variable speed but they rectified the problem. I no longer have the lathe since I have now had my 2nd upgrade in lathes. The General Int. lathes are good lathes so don't undersell your home brews.

I will say that having reviewed the specs for both (and assuming equal quality), I tend to agree. I'd rather own the 114 than the 25-200 first mentioned.

[John K Jordan]

Large work requires a large motor and a lot of mass to counter the weight of the cantilevered blank

I certainly agree with this and with the advice of others. A big, strong lathe is best for big things, the bigger and stronger the better!

But where there is a will there is a way. A close friend of mine turned a bunch of 16"+ bowls outboard on a small Delta lathe maybe 30 years ago. There was no way the lathe could handle the blanks without walking all over the shop and destroying itself and probably hurting him. His solution: pipe clamps to fasten the lathe to the wall of his little garage. He made himself a free-standing tool rest from some pipe and a truck wheel, and made his own turning tools. The bowls he kept are incredible.

You would think the mass and imbalance of a large blank would at least destroy the bearings in the lathe. But the same lathe is still working fine decades later.

BTW, this guy is over 60 and still has more energy than most people have at 25. He made furniture with hand tools and still makes the largest raku fired pots in the world. He also has about 15 patents to his name. I feel a little soft and lazy when I hang out with him.

I'm not saying anyone else should even try what he did, especially if other options are available. But it is possible.

JKJ

[Lorne Collicutt]

I'm on Vancouver Island (BC)

[Lorne Collicutt]

is it a safe assumption that you would rather have the 114 because of its larger motor and swing? Or did I miss something?