How to fix / rehab a #4 Stanley Plane

[Andrew Pitonyak]

I told a neighbor that I would rehab and sell a hand plane that he owns. First, I removed some rust, flattened the back of the plane blade and sharpened it. I then tested it to see how it worked. In a word; HORRIBLE!

I am not sure if this was ever used correctly, the blade was upside down in the plane when I took it from him, and it would never have worked as configured. Also, the blade was very very dull. The back flattened pretty quickly.

The "bad" behavior:

I advanced the blade a bit at a time until it would just start to take a shaving. I would take a very very small shaving and then the blade would dig into the wood. This is a very well behaved piece of cherry and inch or two wide.

I did nothing to tune the chip breaker and I did not adjust the frog. The bottom is high at the front and back with at least a 0.007" gap in the middle (with my straight edge). Could this be the problem?

I know that I need to tune the chip breaker, but I don't think that is the problem here. To my eye, the gap between the blade and the plane mouth looked OK; not that I have much experience with this.

I have never used a plane this badly behaved.

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[steven c newman]

Bring it over here, and I will help tune it up for you.

Paint colour is because it is a Cordovan model stanley put out in-between the Black Japanning and the ugly Blue periods...

Might take less than an hour to fix up.....

Bring it, and you on over here to Bellefontaine, OH.....anytime.

[Jim Koepke]

The bottom is high at the front and back with at least a 0.007" gap in the middle (with my straight edge). Could this be the problem?

Andrew, this is exactly the problem. The blade has to be advanced enough to take a shaving through the gap. Once the blade engages it starts to dig and flexes the casting. I had a block plane like this once. It was possible to make it into a useable plane. It was never a great plane.

Do you have a belt sander?

I bet Steven does.

jtk

[Andrew Pitonyak]

Andrew, this is exactly the problem. The blade has to be advanced enough to take a shaving through the gap. Once the blade engages it starts to dig and flexes the casting. I had a block plane like this once. It was possible to make it into a useable plane. It was never a great plane.

Do you have a belt sander?

I bet Steven does.

jtk

I do have a belt sander.... Well, it belongs to my Father-In-Law but he said that he is not using it and left it at my house. I am a bit embarrassed that I did not think about using it. I spent about 30 minutes yesterday doing this by hand. I should give that a try....

[Patrick Chase]

I do have a belt sander.... Well, it belongs to my Father-In-Law but he said that he is not using it and left it at my house. I am a bit embarrassed that I did not think about using it. I spent about 30 minutes yesterday doing this by hand. I should give that a try....

You might want to check and make sure that belt sander has a reasonably flat platen first, and of course check your work very frequently while actually sanding the tool.

I've used belt sanders to flatten tools before, but it's really easy to sand in a depression if you're not careful. I alternate between the belt sander and coarse grit sandpaper on a granite plate, using the scratch marks from the sandpaper to guide where I use the belt. It's easier if you hand-sand at 90 deg to the motion of the belt sander, so that you can tell the scratches apart.

[Jim Koepke]

On the other hand, the neighbor thought that it was worth upwards of $60. I doubt that this will ever be worth that, which means that if I do sell it I will clear the asking price with the neighbor and simply return it if he is not happy with the price.

I always wonder how people come up with such prices.

I would set a starting price if you are selling on ebay.

If you get it tuned up and working well, make sure that is stated when you sell it.

It has been a few years, but I have sold #4 sized Bedrock planes in good working condition for less than $60.

jtk

[steven c newman]

Mostly, a plane like that will start at $5.99 + S&H Have sold a few.

While on a mission to retrieve the camera's tripod from the shop....wound up doing a full sharpening on a Fulton #3......Iron had been ground at an angle, in towards the center. Back needed flattened. New, straight 25 degree bevel was ground. beltsander and a MK1 Honing guide , followed by the 600 oil stone and sandpaper up to 2.5K. No chatter, able to shave nice thin shavings from a piece of Walnut.

Then< I almost forgot the tripod.....needed it for pictures of a table....

[steven c newman]

Three planes from today....
The Craftsman No. 3C ( according to the stamp on the side) smooth sole, has a "Golden Oval" Craftsman on the lever cap, and "Craftsman Tools" on the rear handle....
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Made by Millers Falls, for sears. As for the Fulton No.3
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Found in a damp, moldy cellar at a yard sale, $1. Had a yellow mold growing out of the handles. Rear one is a replacement, for now. Might cobble a new handle out of that slab of Walnut it is sitting on.
As for the Made in England Stanley #4?
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Seems to do ..OK.. for an Import. It had a black, plastic depth adjuster knob....until
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One of my spares replaced it.

The Fulton will need a strop for the iron, as I couldn't find mine today.

[Stew Denton]

Andrew,

Take the plane apart and look at the bottom of the frog and the bed where the frog seats on the plane. At least some of the late Stanley planes do not have these two areas milled flat, they are just left as cast. If that is the case, it will be very difficult to get the plane to perform well.

In fact one of the well known writers that teaches classes, and I can't remember for certain which one it is, has mentioned in one of his articles, that he has had folks in his classes that have brought such planes, with the seat and bottom of the frog not milled, and he has never been able to get one to perform as well as would be desired. Thus, the reason for checking that location.

Stew

[Eric Schubert]

Funny you mention this issue, as I have a plane that does this exact same thing. I even tried using it again today, and it either takes little to no shaving or just digs right in and chatters something fierce, leaving gouges in the wood.

Stew, thanks for the tip. I'll take a look at that area. Is there a way to fix this issue? Just mill/file the seat and frog bottom flat? Or is there no way to salvage these planes?

ETA: Sure enough, the plane I mentioned above is not milled flat on either surface... *sigh* At least now I know why it's been such a pain to use.

I have a second plane that is only so-so. It has a nice PM-V11 blade in it, which helps. But, it's still not as nice as I'd like. I flattened the bottom and both sides on a surface grinder, and the seat/frog areas were milled flat previous to my buying this plane. But, I think those surfaces aren't very pristine. The milling looks a little rough. Maybe a quick file will smooth them out and help..?

[steven c newman]

Hmmm, I do have a later Stanely model in the shop....Made in England......funny blue colour. was made AFTER the Cordovan's 3 year run.
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Fresh out of the shipping bag, no less
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Not the best looking bed for the frog....uneven paint thicknesses....we have ways..
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I run this through. It takes away the paint, and any rough stuff under the paint.

Worked on the frog a bit, as well..
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Set the frog in so that that little ramp thing is coplanar to the frogs face. Ne need to advance the frog any more than that. Mated the chipbreaker to the stock iron.
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Doesn't show any signs of chattering, either. The ONLY item that got changed out?
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That plastic knob just had to go.

Trying to see IF I have a shot of the sole..
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Does NOT take all that long to do, just a bit of elbow grease. Didn't even need a fancy new iron, stock one was just fine.
Cordovans were from 1967 -69. This English one was from the mid 70s.I think. It is still in the shop, if the OP wants to try it out...
BTW: that slab being planed is White Oak......

[Stew Denton]

Hi Eric,

I have at least one plane, and maybe two, that has the exact same problem. One is a #3 Dunlap. I have thought about heavily cambering the iron and using it for the equivalent of a scrub plane, but it might give exactly the same problem even for use as a scrub plane. I have some old Stanley Bailey planes that are in fairly ratty condition, ones I didn't give much for, that are much much better planes than is the Dunlap.

For that reason, I've about come to the conclusion that I should take off maybe the iron and possibly the chip breaker off of the Dunlap to save for parts, and pitch the rest. I don't even want to give it away, knowing that if I do give it away, that it will only give the next owner grief.

As to fixing the seat and bottom of the frog, I don't know. About the only thing I might try is to work the two spots over with a coarse double cut mill file, and see what I could do. The plane is certainly not worth paying anyone to mill the underside of the frog and the bed of the sole flat. Because of the ratty old Stanley Bailey planes I have, for example one has a crack, etc., it isn't worth messing with trying to fix the Dunlap.

Stew

[Eric Schubert]

Thanks, Stew. I don't know what someone, even a friend, would charge to mill those areas flat. But I suspect it would cost more than the plane is worth... I'll try the file and see how it goes. It can't get any worse.

[steven c newman]

I do have a standing offer......I will refurb any plane shipped to me, as long as the return postage is included. The would be the only costs to the plane's owner. Round trip postage is all you'd need. Medium Flat rate box. toss the return label inside when it gets mailed. Turn around is maybe two days plus snail mail time.

Or, just out out and buy a Wood River or some other new plane.....

[steven c newman]

Have to check that Dunlap out.....not all were made by Stanley.......happen to have one by Millers falls that is every bit as good as a Millers Falls No. 8 that I also have.....and that "Craftsman even got used the other day..
flat spot.jpg
And..while Sargent made ones were mainly sold as Fultons, depending on the contract to Sears, they also made Dunlaps and even Craftsman models....BTW: Sears got into a habit of using red paint....frogs, and lever caps.

Might check that chipbreaker as well...it might not fit all other planes, as Sargent and Stanley didn't match.