How do you sharpen the Elsworth grind?

[Bill Wyko]

I have the Pro PM by Crown with the Elsworth grind. I also have a hi speed grinder as well as a wet sharpener. I have the Tormek jig as well as a wolverine for the hi speed grinder. When I try to get proper geometry it'll be ok at the tip but as I roll it over it comes away from the stone. I haven't actually sharpened the tool yet for fear of changing the angle and screwing up a 100 dollar tool. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?

[Jeff Farris]

3 inch protrusion from the front of your TORMEK jig. Adjust the knuckle past setting 5 to the point where #6 would be (if there were a 6). Match the bevel angle at the middle of the gouge to the grindstone. That will get you right on -- however, if you buy different "Ellsworth" gouges from different sources -- and sometimes even from the same manufacturer, the profile is never exactly the same.

[Bill Wyko]

Thanks, I'll try this tonight. Anyone ever do it on the wolverine?

[George Morris]

David makes a sharping jig that works very well for his tool . highly suggest it. George

[Harvey M. Taylor]

Hi Jeff, happy Tormek user here. I also cut a spacer board 2 and 3 sixteenth in. and use as a spacer between the universal jig support and the grinding wheel That gives me an almost dead on 60 degree grind at the point of the tool.that is the degree most ellsworth grind tools are set at.I get excellent results that way. Max

[Bill Wyko]

David makes a sharping jig that works very well for his tool . highly suggest it. George

Do you happen to have a picture of this?

[Jim Becker]

The best way to truly get the Ellsworth grind is with the Ellsworth jig. You can't exactly duplicate it with the Vari-Grind; I don't know about the Tormek as I don't own one. I believe I recently posted pictures of the Ellsworth setup as well as my Wolverine stuff...may even been in one of your threads.

[Tony De Masi]

Bill, I have the same gauge but use the Tormek instead of the Jet.

I do as Jeff has suggested, and he should know, and is in the Tormek book as well. Dead on the center with only marginal changes on the wings.

Tony

[Bill Wyko]

The best way to truly get the Ellsworth grind is with the Ellsworth jig. You can't exactly duplicate it with the Vari-Grind; I don't know about the Tormek as I don't own one. I believe I recently posted pictures of the Ellsworth setup as well as my Wolverine stuff...may even been in one of your threads.

Jim, Isn't your setup built off of a wolverine jig? I just happened to pick up the wolverine in that bunch of stuff I got a couple weeks ago. The tool with that gring is great. I'll look up those pics. Thanks.

[Jim Becker]

Bill, I do use the Wolverine for support but in those pictures I posted, you'll see two different adaptations for holding the Ellsworth jig at the correct pivot point...you can't use the v-arm alone as the pivot point will be too low in relation to the centerpoint of the wheel. My original adaptation was a block that I could screw into the vee-arm...just some scrap mahogany. My current setup is a replacement arm from a 3rd party that was designed specifically for the Ellsworth jig and is adjustable for height as well as accompanied by a welded gage that sets the distance from the wheel surface.

Oh, and I use a regular, ordinary 3600 rpm grinder with Norton 3x wheels (60 grit & 100 grit) and the OneWay balancing setup. Smooth as silk and FAST with just a light touch necessary to bring back the edge quickly.

[Frank Kobilsek]

Bill

I'm not going to be around until Monday so I think its safe to drop this blasphemy on you, the firestorm will be over before I get back. Elsworth, Fingernail bowl grind, Irish grind, and players to be named later ... ALL THE SAME!

I was taught to worry about the tip angle. My vari-gauge for my wolverine never changes angle. I just move the v-arm to set the tip angle. The side angle issue is more about how far you wrap the grind around the tip than the angle on the sides.

You won't ruin a $100 tool, you will just discover the Wyko Grind.

While I believe my statement to be true I'll grant you Mr. Ellsworth has a few decades more experience than me and pieces displayed in musuems and videos produced, authored books and has tools named after him ... so I might be wrong.

Frank

[Steven Wilson]

I use the Elsworth jig to sharpen my Elsworth gouge. I set up a similar system to Jim's for using the Wolverine setup. I've also gotten the jig to work with my Tormek (just a piece of wood the correct height to hold the jig). I will have to disagree with Jeff as to the Tormek jig producing the same grind, I find the wings are close but not the same as the Elsworth jig. It's easy enough to get the Tormek to work with the Elsworth jig that I just use that.

[Keith Burns]

Bill

I'm not going to be around until Monday so I think its safe to drop this blasphemy on you, the firestorm will be over before I get back. Elsworth, Fingernail bowl grind, Irish grind, and players to be named later ... ALL THE SAME!

I was taught to worry about the tip angle. My vari-gauge for my wolverine never changes angle. I just move the v-arm to set the tip angle. The side angle issue is more about how far you wrap the grind around the tip than the angle on the sides.

You won't ruin a $100 tool, you will just discover the Wyko Grind.

While I believe my statement to be true I'll grant you Mr. Ellsworth has a few decades more experience than me and pieces displayed in musuems and videos produced, authored books and has tools named after him ... so I might be wrong.

Frank

Frank, you won't get an argument from me on this statement. I believe you are right. I have my Burns grind that works for me. I would dare say you would find it uncormfortable to use and I would have trouble using your grind. It is as much what works for you as anything.

[Travis Stinson]

I have my Burns grind that works for me. I would dare say you would find it uncormfortable to use........

I can attest to that!

[Richard Madison]

Isn't it about the included angle, moving from the tip out along the flutes? Been told, but don't know if it's accurate, that the true Ellsworth grind maintains approximately a 60 degree included angle all the way around. If so, it will look different on gouges with different flute shapes (cross sections), and the profile (side view) may look a little different.

In different words, the top view and side view may appear to approximate the "Ellsworth" (or whoever's) grind, but if the included angle along the flutes is only 35 degrees the thing is going to be a bit grabby. The steel doesn't know its name, but it knows its included grind angle at any point. And so does the wood.

I'm just asking, because I obviously don't know what all the names of the various gouge grinds mean. Maybe can learn something. Thanks for reading this.