Looking at Espresso machines

[Tim Morton]

And I am thinking about buying this one as a jumping in point..

http://www.amazon.com/Breville-Die-C...f=pd_rhf_p_t_1

It would be a bit of an impulse purchase if i bought it now, so instead thought i would sound you guys ( jim becker the espresso guru and others hopefully).

I have been researching grinders for the past week for a coffee maker and had decided on a baratza maestro...then decided that life was short and winters in vermont are long so i bought the Virtouso instead and figured that would help push me to an espresso machine.

I cannot...i repeat cannot drop a $1500 machine on the counter without getting a divorce....and as much as i love coffee i do not want to get a divorce over it.

So as a getting my feet wet is this a safe purchase if i research what "refurbished" means or should i be looking at something like the ranchillo silvia instead...it would not get me divorced...maybe just my own bedroom...

Or and i don't want to hear this...if i am not going to drop real money on the thing i should avoid it all together.

I figure if i buy the Breville and i hate it i will sell it and rethink it it at another time.

[Jim Becker]

Tim, I speak from experience that the low end machines don't last very long and don't work too consistently. It was not until I went through three of them and decided to get a semi-pro machine that I got happy. That machine has been in service now since early 2005. I recently replaced the vacuum breaker on it, but other than that, it's been a trooper. When I figure what I would have theoretically spent for my required daily latté if I were buying it out as well as the costs for weekend breakfasts that we stopped eating out for, the ROI on my then-$1400 machine was less than a year. Probably six months.

There are some decent mid-range machines available. While they cost more than that Breville, they do not cost as much as the semi-pro machines. Talk with the folks at Chris' Coffee Service...they can make a recommendation and even if they can't support your realistic stretch budget, I suspect they can point you in the right direction. But they are great to do business with. A genuine small business that offers personal customer support.

[Joe Pelonio]

We have that one! Bought it new, about $200. We have worn out 4 cheaper ones over that last 15 years or so. This one, my wife says, is great, the only issue is the nozzle being a little hard to clean. It's used once a day during the week and 3-4 times on the weekend. As for grinding, we're real happy with the Cuisinart. Huge container, pretty quiet and has lasted several years, that gets used at least twice a day.

[Eric DeSilva]

The Rancilio Silvio gets good reviews, and I'm sure you would be happy with it. As far as Breville goes, I've got their panini press and my overall feeling is that they are aspiring to be a high end appliance company, but missing a bit with the build quality.

Ultimately, I'm with Jim--I spent about $1500 on an espresso machine (a Salvatore semi-auto) about 10 years ago, and it has far exceeded my expectations. Both my wife and I drink a lot of coffee, so it is heavily used, and I'm glad I invested what I did. Aside from backflushing on a regular basis, I have done zero maintenance on it.

I'd look for something with an E61 group head and *weight*. Part of what you are shopping for is a boiler that gets up to heat and stays there--that requires mass.

[Matt Meiser]

I've got a Breville Cafe Roma that I've had for at least 4 years now and I've been happy with it. The only thing I've replaced is the filter cup which got clogged after a few years. It gets used at least once a day. My grinder is a Krups burr grinder.

[Mark P. Miller]

Moca pots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_%28coffee_pot%29

[Shawn Pixley]

At the risk of hijacking the thread. The others have given you good advice that I will echo. After going through several espresso machines, we re-examined what we really wanted from coffee. For my part, I am relatively indifferent to whether it is espresso. What I like is really good and strong coffee. We opted to go to a high end coffee maker.

The secret to really good coffee is this:
Good beans ground right before brewing.
Store whole beans in dark airtight container in cool location (not refrigerated)
Burr grinder with adjustments to tune the grind for your specific brewing technique. Spin grinders heat beans too much.
Clean machine and clean water
Heating water to perfect temperature. (there is a maybe 3-5 degree F. range that gives best results.
Brew right before drinking
Never let it sit on a heater!

Some of the European self service, single serving machines are great. They typically cast 15-20K though. At work we put them in our affiliate offices. Good luck and find the brew that works for you. If you want good coffee cheaply, a French press can give excellent results (this is the coffee neander style)

[Greg Carr]

La Pavoni

I have had mine for over 20 years. Almost daily use. Itialian made. You can buy Replacement parts from an outfit in New York. I have done a couple of rebuilds on mine. My only complaint is that it makes only a cup at a time.

Those screw togwther pots are a standard throughout the world. I spent years working in Italy, there is one of these on every stove. They make a great pot of espresso. I have a collection of these including a fairly large one I use to make multiple cups at a time. I use the Pavoni for frothing milk to go with it. You can find the serew together pots for under $20 bucks. Pick up a pack of spare gaskets.

The real secret is the coffee. I use Lavazza that I have sent from Italy in a large quantity for a lot cheaper than I can get it over here. I also use Cafe Bustello which I buy online from javacabana.com, this is a Cuban style coffee ideal for the screw together pots.

Here is a link to a Pavoni similar to mine. I paid considerably less than this for mine. If my memory serves me correctly around $200. When I bought I my wife thought I was crazy to pay that much for a coffee maker. Now she thinks it is one of the best purchases we have made.

http://www.amazon.com/Pavoni-EPBB-8-...448770&sr=1-11

Greg

[Chuck Wintle]

not to hijack this thread but are there any opinions on the Saeco brand machines?

[Dan Friedrichs]

Also not to hijack, but what exactly does an espresso maker DO? I mean, isn't it just a heater that makes steam and forces it through coffee grounds? Is there some other functionality that I'm unaware of?

[Joe Pelonio]

It actually forces water through the grounds, the steam is for heating the milk and frothing it for lattes. The coffee is ground a lot finer than for regular drip, to concentrate the flavor and create the creamy coffee that is espresso. Not the same as regular coffee, though I do drink both.

[Tim Morton]

Hijack away...its a discussion about espresso machines...there are hundreds of them out there. I watched a bunch if youtube videos last night...Seattle Coffee Works has a lot of informative info...nice to see the units in action.

Part of me is thinking if i spend $600 on a dvd player..then i should have no problems spending the $1500 on a espresso maker.

But as someone pointed up i don't have this huge desire or preference for espresso over coffee, and i when i drink espresso i almost always drink it with hot water....not much of a latte guy anymore, but that would probably change if i bought this.

I like the idea of getting into something cheap in order to learn what i like and what i don't like...i am not expecting a $200 breville or a $400 Gaggia, but i do think that the moeny i put into it will be well invested if i find its "not my thing".

Its just me in the house that drinks coffee..so this would lightly used....i will have to ponder it for awhile and decide....

[Tim Morton]

I think i am narrowing it down to the Gaggia Classic or the Le'Lit PL041. These are both selling for $400 shipped, and seem to be decent entry level machines. I have read enough bad about the Breville to cross it off my list.

[Doug Mason]

I had a Gagia classic--bought it in 2000 (for $450) and it finally gave out in 2008 (because I used hard water). It was a good machine--almost all metal. The machine turned me into an exspresso snob--and I much prefer expresso to drip coffee!! Unfortunately, the new Gagia Classic machines I see are mostly plastic now--and I would NEVER by a plastic expresso machine.

Based on my experience there is a threshold below which I would not go as far as purchase price for an espresso machine; I would say it is about $800. So my advice is stay above $800 and make sure the machine isn't plastic. Have you looked at CL for used machines?

[Tim Morton]

Unfortunately, the new Gagia Classic machines I see are mostly plastic now--and I would NEVER by a plastic expresso machine.

I think you are referring to the Gaggia "pure" as being plastic.

The Gaggia classics are stainless and in fact better than they were in 2000...if you can believe what you read:

http://www.wholelattelove.com/Gaggia/classic.cfm