Seeking info on Hot Rodding my Delta 50-850 DC

[Steven Wayne]

As the title says, I am seeking info on Hot Rodding (getting the most of) my Delta 50-850 Type 2 dust collector. I mostly work with MDF in my shop. I do custom upholstery, mostly in older classic cars and hot rods. I use a lot of MDF and luan in my projects. I have been putting together the wood working part of my shop this year. I have a 1973 Unisaw that I have set up for my needs. The Unisaw and a router mounted in a Bench Dog cast iron extension wing are my only real dust producers right now.

What I currently have:

Delta 50-850 Type 2. I removed the Y at the inlet. It has the Delta canister filter on it.
6" PVC S&D main header connected directly to the inlet.
4" PVC S&D to the Unisaw base and under-table router box.
4" PVC S&D to a short (~30") 4" hose to either the saw's Shark Guard w/4" port or the router fence dust port with 2.25 -> 4" adapter.

Jet AFS-1000B air filter with Jet filters.

Things I'm considering doing:

Removing the steel 4" baffle on the inlet to the impeller.
Making a Phil Thien design baffle.
Replacing the cartridge with a Wynn Environmental Nanofiber .5 micron cartridge.
Installing Wynn Environmental filter and bag in the Jet air filter.

Goals:

I don't want to spend a bunch of money for little return. ie: most bang for the buck, taking in to account what I already own.
Capture as much dust at the source as I can, of course
Get the most out of the 50-850.
Do it right the first time so I'm not ripping it all out in a few months to change it up.

I have spent many hours reading everything I can find on the subject, which is how I have got the info above. I welcome any input, advice, photos, links, etc.

Thanks!
Steven

Some photos..

Yes, my dust collector is sitting on my milling machine..




The light by the canister will be moved..


I couldn't find a local supplier for 6" wye so I used a tee.


The lower 4" connections.

[Gilbert Vega]

Sounds like what you have done and plan on doing should maximize the dc. I had the same unit with the Delta cartridge filter but had to replace it with a Powermatic dc that pulled 1900 cfm. The Delta worked fine on all my tools except on a 37" drum sander
Just couldn't pull the air, even with very short 4" hoses. Hope yours does what you want it to do.
Gilbert

[Alan Schaffter]

See suggestions below for the quickest, easiest, most inexpensive ways to improve your setup.

As the title says, I am seeking info on Hot Rodding (getting the most of) my Delta 50-850 Type 2 dust collector. I mostly work with MDF in my shop. I do custom upholstery, mostly in older classic cars and hot rods. I use a lot of MDF and luan in my projects. I have been putting together the wood working part of my shop this year. I have a 1973 Unisaw that I have set up for my needs. The Unisaw and a router mounted in a Bench Dog cast iron extension wing are my only real dust producers right now.


Things I'm considering doing:

Removing the steel 4" baffle on the inlet to the impeller.

You should have done that years ago!

Making a Phil Thien design baffle.
Replacing the cartridge with a Wynn Environmental Nanofiber .5 micron cartridge.
Installing Wynn Environmental filter and bag in the Jet air filter.

Forget the filters, use a separator and vent outside.

Goals:

I don't want to spend a bunch of money for little return. ie: most bang for the buck, taking in to account what I already own.
Capture as much dust at the source as I can, of course
Get the most out of the 50-850.
Do it right the first time so I'm not ripping it all out in a few months to change it up.

I have spent many hours reading everything I can find on the subject, which is how I have got the info above. I welcome any input, advice, photos, links, etc.


I couldn't find a local supplier for 6" wye so I used a tee.

Get rid of all the T's, they are big time CFM killers!!!! Use only wyes. Get rid of all the 90's- replace with a wye + 45, or use two 4's. Straighten all your runs. Your runs don't need to be orthogonal- think outside the box. Totally rework the abortion of inlet piping to the DC- re-orient the blower, elevate the DC, lower the piping along the wall, etc., but do whatever you need to do so the inlet pipe runs straight for as long as possible and runs directly into the DC. Every bend robs CFM!! Don't neck down before the TS.

[Steven Wayne]

Forget the filters, use a separator and vent outside.

Get rid of all the T's, they are big time CFM killers!!!! Use only wyes. Get rid of all the 90's- replace with a wye + 45, or use two 4's. Straighten all your runs. Your runs don't need to be orthogonal- think outside the box. Totally rework the abortion of inlet piping to the DC- re-orient the blower, elevate the DC, lower the piping along the wall, etc., but do whatever you need to do so the inlet pipe runs straight for as long as possible and runs directly into the DC. Every bend robs CFM!! Don't neck down before the TS.

When you say separator do you mean the Phil Thien baffle?

I have yet to find a local supplier for 6" wyes. I can re-work the inlet. I already removed. the 4" inlet restricter piece.

Thank you for the info!

[Alan Schaffter]

When you say separator do you mean the Phil Thien baffle?

I have yet to find a local supplier for 6" wyes. I can re-work the inlet. I already removed. the 4" inlet restricter piece.

Thank you for the info!

Cyclone, Phil's system, or nothing, if you can get away with it- the goal is the least resistance.

Did you use thin walled PVC Sewer and Drain (solid perf, gravity drain, S&D, ASTM 2729)? If so try McMaster-Carr or Ace Hardware (store or online). My Lowes only carries 4" S&D pipe but carries 4" and 6" fittings - remember the fittings will usually not be in the plumbing section- they will be in the irrigation and drainage section area.

What I meant by thinking outside the box and avoid orthogonal - people try to make their DC runs, look like nice neat setups- run along the walls, sharp bends around corners, etc, etc. when most of those things are bad- you can run your drops at a 45 down etc. Though they run below the floor of my second story shop (along garage ceiling) I have two long mains running each about 30 ' connected to 12 drops and I did it all with zero 90's. Here is a shot of my ducting. More can be seen in my video.

[Joe A Faulkner]

You probably have already have seen it, but in case you haven't, here is a great build of the Thien Baffle configured for 6" inlets/outlets.

http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.ph...29.0;topicseen

I built mine following this basic desgin/approach only lined the cylinder with hardboard with aluminum roof flashing laminated to it instead of using formica - basically went with what I had on hand.

Here's a creek post of a "portable" version: http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...ions&p=1607637 .

I borrowed from this design for mounting my blower housing so that it sits right on top of the baffle; plumbed with a short run of 6" S&D pvc. Here's another creek build of the baffle, but this one uses 4" inlets/outlets and long runs of flex hose between the baffle and blower. I think you will get better performance if you can eliminate these long runs of flex hose.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?163607-My-HF-DC-w-Different-Version-of-Thien-Baffle

If you are sawing a lot of MDF, you will want some type of overarm dust pick up on your table saw. I made my own using 4" S&D PVC off a 6" trunk to run out over the TS, with a short pieces of 4" flex connecting to a homemade hood. Perhaps your Unisaw already has an overarm DC?

[Steve Ryan]

Rework the Delta blower. Try to mount the blower directly into the seperator, eliminating the small flex hose. It may be possible to eliminate the 90 and 2)45s by doing this. Also consider an over arm pickup over the saw blade.

[David Kumm]

Whatever you do now spend as little as possible and save money and watch for a used cyclone in the 3-5 hp 15-16" impeller range. Mdf is bad stuff and what you don't see you feel- in about 20 years. There is no substitute for cfm in your situation and eventually you will decide to redo the entire system and use fittings better suited to maximizing that airflow. MDF demands better DC than most wood in my lungs opinion. Dave

[Jim Neeley]

Steven,

I really like the idea of getting your DC up and out of the way. The thing jumping out to me is access for emptying of the dust bag, with it elevated so high. If it were me I'd disconnect the flex hose, move the fan to the back and the filter to the front and build a "box" where the bag is, with some form of "trap door" that permitted emptying into a large (but moveable) trash can. If there was a plexi "window" in the side you could see when to dump.

To avoid the dust when dumping, a ring could be made and, using the elastic ring that holds the bag in place now, hold the bag against the trap door for dumping, removing it thereafter to free back up the floor space.

[Steven Wayne]

You probably have already have seen it, but in case you haven't, here is a great build of the Thien Baffle configured for 6" inlets/outlets.

http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.ph...29.0;topicseen

If you are sawing a lot of MDF, you will want some type of overarm dust pick up on your table saw. I made my own using 4" S&D PVC off a 6" trunk to run out over the TS, with a short pieces of 4" flex connecting to a homemade hood. Perhaps your Unisaw already has an overarm DC?

Thank you for that link. I actually found that last night when searching around for info on the baffle. I plan to build this sort of separator and mount the blower on top of it. This will hopefully be setup so that the inlet to the separator is at the level of my current main 6" header. Then the separator will be on top of a can up on that shelf where the DC currently sits.

Rework the Delta blower. Try to mount the blower directly into the seperator, eliminating the small flex hose. It may be possible to eliminate the 90 and 2)45s by doing this. Also consider an over arm pickup over the saw blade.

I plan to build the separator very similar to what Joe linked to above. I have a Shark Guard on order. I'm hoping it will be here soon.

Whatever you do now spend as little as possible and save money and watch for a used cyclone in the 3-5 hp 15-16" impeller range. Mdf is bad stuff and what you don't see you feel- in about 20 years. There is no substitute for cfm in your situation and eventually you will decide to redo the entire system and use fittings better suited to maximizing that airflow. MDF demands better DC than most wood in my lungs opinion. Dave

Crap! After reading this I am wondering if my current setup is going to be adequate. I currently use a respirator when I am working with MDF. Hmmm.. Anyone care to chime in on this??

Steven,

I really like the idea of getting your DC up and out of the way. The thing jumping out to me is access for emptying of the dust bag, with it elevated so high. If it were me I'd disconnect the flex hose, move the fan to the back and the filter to the front and build a "box" where the bag is, with some form of "trap door" that permitted emptying into a large (but moveable) trash can. If there was a plexi "window" in the side you could see when to dump.

To avoid the dust when dumping, a ring could be made and, using the elastic ring that holds the bag in place now, hold the bag against the trap door for dumping, removing it thereafter to free back up the floor space.

Jim - I'm having a hard time visualizing what you are saying and I'm interested. Have you seen a photo of a setup like this?


Thank you for the replies! Thus far I have removed the 4" inlet orifice and taped up a couple of leaking connections. My Unisaw cabinet has almost no dust inside after cutting with the current DC system. As I mentioned above, I have a Shark Guard with 4" dust hose port on order.

[Thomas Hotchkin]

When you say separator do you mean the Phil Thien baffle?

I have yet to find a local supplier for 6" wyes. I can re-work the inlet. I already removed. the 4" inlet restricter piece.

Thank you for the info!

Steve
HD Supply, Waterworks has all the 6" wyes, pipe & fittings you need 9115A 117th AVE Vancouver,WA. 360-256-6151 Tom

[Clint Olver]

Here is a link to a thread on how I built a thein baffle right into the same dust collector (but made by steel city):

http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com/showthread.php?34690-Dust-Collector-Modification-w-pics&highlight=dust+collector

I would unbolt you impeller housing and attach it to the 2x4 on the wall, so your pipe runs straight into the inlet without all the twists and turns.

Run 6" to everything, or two 4".

Get rid of the 4" reducing ring inside the impeller housing.

Replace the Ts with Ys as suggested.

If possible, vent outside. If not, Wynn filters are great.

C

[Steven Wayne]

I pulled my dust collector down today to clean it out. The plan has been to modify it with a PT separator ring and use it like that for the next little while. I'm having a hard time sorting through all of the ways guys have done this and picking one that will work well for me. It seems like Clint's setup he linked to above is a good option, but I'm unclear on how he put the stack together.

Any input, photos, details, etc would be very much appreciated. I'd like to get to work on this soon. Lots of info out there, but I need some advice.

[david brum]

Alan is absolutely right about venting outside. If you're in Vancouver, you don't really have to worry about whatever heated or cooled air you lose to the outside. Your system will be much more efficient without the filter. Also, if you work exclusively with MDF, you're going to be cleaning your canister filter all the time, even with a Thien separator. Fine dust will go past the separator and right into the filter. I have plenty of experience with this. Thien separators work great for bigger chips like what you get from a jointer or planer, but not so good for fine, powdery dust. Venting outside makes the dust collector marginally quieter as well.

The comments about tight turns on your piping are absolutely true also. The best place for your dust collector would be right behind your table saw, with the piping as short and straight as possible. A dust collector of that size was never intended for long runs or bends. Every bend and foot of piping reduces the air flow and thus the efficiency of your system. It adds up really fast.

[Rick Thom]

A couple of things to note. There are numerous variations of Phil's design. What Clint has shown is a separator. The separation process is performed downstream from the impeller and is dumped into the clear dust collection bag. There is also a pre-separator version. This is where the separator is located on the inlet pipe from the equipment, before the impeller. Locating it before the impeller means all the dust and wood chips etc are captured first and deposited in a collector pail, and the dirty air doesn't pass through the impeller. For the pre-separator design, there are 2 versions, One is simply a baffle that is located in the top section of a garbage can or drum (Howard's version) and the other version is called a 'top hat' (Pitbull's version). The 'top hat' is a separate unit that is constructed to separate the dust out and sits on top of a collection container. I feel the preferred version is the pre-separator 'top hat' design.
As far as it's ability to separate dust, I think most of us who have built them have separation in the high 90's%. I ran almost 30 gallons of very fine dust like MDF through mine with virtually no dust passing the separator. There was no dust collected in my Wynn pleated filter We've now evolved to needing only a very small collection bag under the cartridge filter. This is all a work-in-progress as everyone is experimenting and tweeking Phil's most excellent design.