Finials

[Peter Blair]

Hey everyone!

I am, I hope, about to widen my horizons by attempting to learn how to do thin hollow forms c/w fine finials. I read and wonder at the excellence of the work done by Creekers especially the thin long finials. I have watched a lot of Utube but have not purchased any specific videos so a couple of questions come to my very small mind.
1. Have any of you produced a step by step of the work you do or are you way too busy actually doing the work to stop to photograph it along the way? I know I personally often get too involved and forget to take photos along the way.
2. The 'transition'. I really like am early impressed with smooth transitions from the hollow form to the finial and wonder about the process. Just how and when do you actually fit it to the form? I am thinking that I'll turn the form, leave it in a chuck, turn the finial, fit and finish it then do the final fitting to the form. Would that be a good way to go?

[John Keeton]

Peter, as I recall, you are familiar with the sticky thread on "Start to finish" - you might want to check out some of those threads. I sketch nearly all of my work, and in doing so, it forces me to think through the "construction" process. On some, I will end up completing the form and then turn the finial, though I usually will leave it in the chuck until everything is turned - nice to have several chucks! Other times, I will turn the stepped lid portion that fits the form, and jam it against the form so I can flow the form and finial as one. It really depends on the overall design.

Perhaps others can offer some further comment.

[Peter Blair]

Thank you John. There is so much information here that I just forgot and will go back through the thread and re-read/watch again.

[Cory Norgart]

Peter, as I recall, you are familiar with the sticky thread on "Start to finish" - you might want to check out some of those threads. I sketch nearly all of my work, and in doing so, it forces me to think through the "construction" process. On some, I will end up completing the form and then turn the finial, though I usually will leave it in the chuck until everything is turned - nice to have several chucks! Other times, I will turn the stepped lid portion that fits the form, and jam it against the form so I can flow the form and finial as one. It really depends on the overall design.



Perhaps others can offer some further comment.

Great post,,, +1 on Petes thanks to John... Great info... Helpfull as I am currently working on an Urn for a close friend of mine that passed away recently and is going to involve some fine finial work... I am new to this finial stuff so this is going to help me quite a bit.. So John,, when you say jam the piece against the form,,, is this an already rounded piece,, or,,?? I have two chucks,, but like the sound of this method....

[Steve bellinger]

Peter i'm not one to do the best finials and i'm not very good at explaining what i mean. But i did take some pics of how i turn finials the other day. enother guy over on a different forum asked me how i did them, so on my last piece i took pics of how i did them. Now this is just how i do them. Never been tought how except through the internet.
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[Jamie Donaldson]

Turning finials takes some real practice, and I suggest turning a batch to refine the process. Good woods are cherry, hard maples, walnut, dogwood, and any other dense and fine grained woods, and don't think that they all have to be black woods like ebony. I usually turn many in a turning session, and each will then be better than the last one finished, I hope! It is also helpful to work out a personal design that can be refined as you practice, otherwise the finials will tend to be composed of random elements that don't always fit together well.

[John Keeton]

So John,, when you say jam the piece against the form,,, is this an already rounded piece,, or,,??

Cory, many of my finials are multi-piece turnings, and this method will only work on those. So, we are talking about the finial base - usually the part on which the onion would sit, or what I would call the cove base.

First, turn the lid portion to fit your recess on the form using a fairly long (4-5") piece of stock. Then, mount the chucked form, and using the tailstock gently press the finial base stock against its recess. The friction of the form against the stock will drive the piece enough to use light cuts with a detail gouge.

This will allow you to turn and sand the finial base and the form as one unit. The one thing you will need to consider is getting access for your toolrest. I have a very short tool rest I use for turning finials.

Once you get the base formed, you can tape it to the form with blue tape and part it off - gently. At that point, you will want to drill a hole in the top for attaching the next finial section.

Hope this makes sense!

[Bill Bolen]

The Cindy Drozda video is really well done for showing you the in's and put of finial turning. There is a loner copy that is making the rounds here although I have not seen it posted for loan out in forever.. Could be the person hoarding it might feel guilty and re-post for loan.

[Cory Norgart]

Cory, many of my finials are multi-piece turnings, and this method will only work on those. So, we are talking about the finial base - usually the part on which the onion would sit, or what I would call the cove base.

First, turn the lid portion to fit your recess on the form using a fairly long (4-5") piece of stock. Then, mount the chucked form, and using the tailstock gently press the finial base stock against its recess. The friction of the form against the stock will drive the piece enough to use light cuts with a detail gouge.

This will allow you to turn and sand the finial base and the form as one unit. The one thing you will need to consider is getting access for your toolrest. I have a very short tool rest I use for turning finials.

Once you get the base formed, you can tape it to the form with blue tape and part it off - gently. At that point, you will want to drill a hole in the top for attaching the next finial section.

Hope this makes sense!

Thanks John,,, Makes sense,, I guess I never thought of doing multi piece finials.. I will be on it this weekend. Very explanational response... You are a crafty kind of craftsman arent you??? Ill let you know how it turns out..

[Peter Blair]

Hi Steve, great pictures and really helpful. Making them this way you must be exceptionally good when it comes to the final size cause if was me after I parted it off I'd be looking for some way of changing the diameter of the base so it wouldn't just fall right into my hollow form.

I too thank you John. I had wondered about multi piece finals only because my Scottish blood comes to the fore when I am turning (read wasting) all that nice hard tight grained wood. This method I am going to try for sure.

[Scott Hackler]

Peter, all good advise so far. I would also echo Jamie's comment that very hard wood can help the process. There are so many ways and styles to turn finials that you have to experiment some to find the style you prefer and/or can create. My advise is to pay attention to proportion of the elements and the correct height for the form. As a general rule of thumb I turn my finials 1x the width of my form + 1/4", but that is partially because I developed my own thin finial style and because of the slender nature of them, the extra height seems to work.

Traditional finials with the onion bulb at the bottom, tapering to a decorative tip...generally need to be shorter than 1x the form width because of it's thickness. IMO. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I am amazed at some of my family members that prefer a "fatter" finial.

The thing is, that even though it is a decoration, it shouldn't detract from the beauty of the form....just compliment it.

Now on to the making. I use 3/4" stock for my finials and generally use African blackwood. I love using this wood because of it's super close grain and strength. Just to try, I once turned a finial stem down to 1/32" and surprisingly it still was stiff. I kinda have to "make due" and clamp the stock in the center of my stock 50mm jaws with the tail stock up for support. I then round the blank, cut in the appropriate tenon size with a parting tool and make a carrot shape tapering to the tail stock for the standard shaped finial. Then I start developing the features of the finial by marking the location where they will be on the "carrot" with the gouge and at the same time establishing the length. The tip comes next and I work it down to final thickness about 1/2" to 3/4" at a time. After about 1-1/2" the tail stock can be your enemy from too much pressure so I ditch the tail stock and work it while only clamped in the chuck.

When turning thin, I do (like most) and support the finial with my finger (opposite hand) as I go and sand that way too. When the whole finial is turned I will do a final sanding with 600 and artificial steel wool.

Hope this helps a bit.

[Peter Blair]

Absolutely! Thanks Scott.