carbide cutters VS traditional chisels

[Brent Dorner]

As someone who is newer to turning I need to ask, why would someone use traditional HSS chisels over carbide cutters like Easy Wood Tools?

With Easy Wood Tools, or products like them, I can buy a square, round and detail cutter all for about $350. The cutters will likelty last me 4-6 months before needing to be sharpened or replaced and I believe they cut faster that HSS. So I won't spend my precious time in the shop sharpening my chisels.

On the other hand I could easily spend $350+ on a high quality set of HSS chisels, plus an additional $200 on sharpen jig and $250 on a nice grinder and grinder wheels. Then be sharpening my tools every 10-15 minutes.

So my question is, outside of tradition, why would I want to invest traditional chisels? Do they allow for a larger variety of cuts? Allow for more detail? Leave a better finished cut? Or?

[Scott Lux]

I don't have any carbide cutters yet, so I can't give you a direct comparison. But I do know from reading here that there are things carbide cutters can't do. Probably the best way to look at it is that there are different tools for different jobs.

While you could probably play golf with one or two clubs, having others available allows you to maximize you efforts. Or if you prefer fishing: There is no lure that will always catch fish. Having more to choose from allows you more opportunity to succeed.

Of course, the real trick is knowing which tool to use under which conditions.

[Nathan Hawkes]

Brent, let me try and be PC about my answer. Turners seem to love or hate them, and I don't want to sound like I'm starting a feud. I think carbide cutters have an appeal because they don't have as steep a learning curve. In addition, with regular, actual chisels, you have to learn to sharpen as well. Some great results can be had with carbide tools. That said, when you learn to use a bowl gouge, or detail gouge, or whatever, the variety of cuts and versatility is unmatched. Over time, in skilled hands, you cannot possibly touch the speed and quality of cut that you get with a freshly sharpened bowl gouge. Yes, I have used carbide tools, and tried to like them. There are some very well made tools out there. I just find for me, bowl gouges are a much better fit. The carbide tools have their place; for many turners who don't turn lots of bowls, it is much easier to use a carbide roughing tool for shaping and waste removal when shaping a bowl. But, as you become familiar with bowl gouges, the quality of the edge of a carbide tool begins to lose its appeal--for me, even a new, fresh carbide tool, except the Hunter dished cutters, or the "finishing" tools I've seen advertised, but haven't used personally, they are never feels as sharp as a bowl gouge off the grinder. I just work much much faster with gouges. Also, for as many bowls as I turn, I just can't see buying new cutters as frequently as I would need them. Buying quality tools offers a much more enjoyable, and longer lasting turning experience for me.

[Brent Dorner]

Nathan, as a newer turner I am hearing conflicting reports so it leads to some confusion. The salesman at Woodcraft made it sound like a dull carbide blade is still better than a sharp HSS chisel. Now when he told me that it did make me question the comment, but then I hear you say a new carbide blade is still not as good as a good HSS chisel... so the confusion sets in

[Marty Eargle]

If you're going to drop a nice chunk of change on tools, I would suggest getting some quality chisels and gouges for yourself. If you have the desire to give carbide cutters a try, you can make your own for fairly cheap. They won't end up being the quality of EWT cutters, but they'll be good enough to give you an idea of whether or not you want to invest more into them.

I would start by looking up capneddie on Youtube. He'll show you how to make a good carbide cutter for real cheap, or he'll sell you one he has made for like $40. I would consider it a worthy investment when you're thinking about buying an entire line of tools.

[Michael Mason]

I purchased the large easy finisher about a year ago. At first, I couldn't live without it. Now that I have more practice using a bowl gouge, I rarely use the carbide cutter anymore. It has areas where it is useful, but when you learn more about what you are doing, you can do whatever you need with traditional gouges. Also, from my experience, if you are going to get 4 - 6 months on a single carbide insert, you must not be planning on doing much turning.

[Brent Dorner]

I fully understand and respect the tradition aspect of wood turning or woodworking in general. At the same time I believe if someone in the 1700's was given a 12 inch compound sliding miter saw with a carbide blade they would have tossed their hand saw in the garbage. I'm not wanting people to pick sides, just share the advantages and disadvantages of each tool. As a newbie that has not held a high quality HSS chisel or carbide tool at the lathe I wonder what the best option may be. As I said, I don't have a lot of time to spend in the shop and wonder if spending 20-30% of my tuning time on sharpening is productive. Not to mention the added expense of needing the tools to sharpen the tools.

If it strictly comes down to tradition, I would ask do you turn on a foot pedal lathe and sharpen by hand on a foot pedal grinding stone? Or did you step up to a variable speed grinder and a sharpening jig? If it has nothing to do with tradition is it because HSS chisels cut faster, cut better and give you more options for a larger range of cuts?

[Bernie Weishapl]

Brent I have both HSS and some of the EWT's. My suggestion would be to get you some bowl gouges, spindle gouges, skews, etc and learn the basics of turning. The EWT's and carbide tools do have their place and are excellent for some jobs. I have found that the cutters on the EWT's last for a long time. In my opinion the are a lot sharper than HSS and the edge lasts several times longer than HSS. The woodcraft sales person is trying to sell. IMHO I would learn the basic woodturning tools and then add the Hunter, EWT's, etc later.

[Prashun Patel]

I'm prejudiced bkz I learned on HSS bowl gouges (I'm all of an beginning intermediate now).

I haven't found the curve so very steep; practice enough and the technique and feel becomes natural. I think it's a versatile skill worth learning. For my $$, I'd rather put the $350 into a couple high quality steel gouges, a slowspeed grinder, and a Varigrind.

FWIW, with the grinder and Varigrind/Wolverine, sharpening is pretty simple and straightforward; not like sharpening flat blades at all.

[Brent Dorner]

Also, from my experience, if you are going to get 4 - 6 months on a single carbide insert, you must not be planning on doing much turning.

I can only go based on what I hear, some people have said they can cut 10-15 bowls without turning the bit, and the bit square or round has 4 sides, so that would be 40-60 bowls on one bit. If that is true, and I'm not sure it is, then 1 bit probably would last me 4 months. My goal is not to turn a lot of bowls, some bowls but also stoppers, grinders/mills, hollow forms/vases, candlesticks and so on.

[Allan Ferguson]

You should not be spending time every 10-15 minutes sharpening good turning tools. Quality steel will do a lot of work between going to the grinder. Tradition IMHO has little to to with selection of tools. My first lathe was a spring pole foot powered lathe that I had made. It is now disassembled in a corner of my shop. Now use a Nova lathe. I can do things with this late that could not be done on the spring pole lathe.

[J.D.Redwine]

What tools are you using now?

[Ralph Lindberg]

I'm going to step in the middle of the road... I have an Easy Rougher and find it takes a "chunk" to round and rough shaped quicker and easier then even my 3/4 inch PM bowl gouge.
That being said, the amount of tear-out, even taking light cuts with it or the Easy Finisher is too great. I can get a better finish cut, quicker and easier with a well honed bowl gouge.

[Russell Neyman]

I'm going to chime in here, essentially agreeing with Ralph and Allen. I use cutting heads made from 1/4 x 1/4 stock, mounted on an extremely long handle to hog out my interiors, and it works quite well. My theory is that a small cutting surface reduces the chances of a catch significantly, and when you add all that leverage you can make quick work of the interiors. After I have the bowl roughed out, I switch to other tools, depending on the type of wood. (Let's face it, some species can be temperamental.)

Allen's point about higher quality steel is an excellent point. Brands like D-Way are made of stuff that holds an edge for two or three times what the cheapie gouges have. If I were to start all over again, I'd skip the "starter sets" and buy fewer top-tier ones.

[Jamie Donaldson]

As someone who is newer to turning I need to ask, why would someone use traditional HSS chisels over carbide cutters like Easy Wood Tools?

With Easy Wood Tools, or products like them, I can buy a square, round and detail cutter all for about $350. The cutters will likelty last me 4-6 months before needing to be sharpened or replaced and I believe they cut faster that HSS. So I won't spend my precious time in the shop sharpening my chisels.

On the other hand I could easily spend $350+ on a high quality set of HSS chisels, plus an additional $200 on sharpen jig and $250 on a nice grinder and grinder wheels. Then be sharpening my tools every 10-15 minutes.

So my question is, outside of tradition, why would I want to invest traditional chisels? Do they allow for a larger variety of cuts? Allow for more detail? Leave a better finished cut? Or?

The fundamental difference between most carbide tools like EWT's and traditional HSS tools like gouges is the manner in which they are used. EWT's are scrapers, and traditional gouges are slicers, and the quality and variety of cuts achieved are quite different. Slicing tools efficiently shear away a considerable amount of wood, and leave a more refined surface due to the bevel rubbing/slicing manner in which they cut. Scrapers scrape the wood away in a brute force manner, leaving a surface that requires significantly more sanding to achieve a surface ready to finish. I basically consider such carbide scrapers to be aimed at beginner turners who haven't learned how to sharpen and use gouges, but their extreme cost eliminates any recommendation from me. They are easy to learn to use, and do give beginning turners quick gratification as they ease into turning. The cupped carbide discs of the Hunter type tools are a different breed of cat, more cutters than scrapers, and are a hybrid tool design that fits between slicers and scrapers, and I love my Hunter #5!