Do you clock or time your screws?

[george wilson]

It is not a mark of superiority. It's just the proper,workman like way of doing it. To clock my metal screws,which I make,I leave the heads too tall,saw a slot in them,and tighten them down. Then,mark the sides of the screws to where I want the slots to be,saw the tops down and resaw the slots according to the marks,and finish off the new screw tops. This is still done on the finest gun locks,like Purdeys,etc..

Do not take a bad attitude about it. That is an emotional response. It really is the proper way to make a fine job. I never use Phillips head screws. I know,it's hard to get slots any more,so I've saved up a supply of them. If necessary,I'll make the wood screws too,if it's for a correct looking antique style object.

This plane I made was a Presidential gift,and had to be correct in all aspects. I don't post in this section much,but I was the toolmaker for Colonial Williamsburg.

[Jason Roehl]

Speaking as an engineer that's precisely the sort of stuff in woodworking that puts me off on occasion - along with the insistence in some quarters on doing things the supposedly 'traditional' way for its own sake. Worse still when it's deemed a mark of personal superiority!

ian

I totally agree. And, I have a related story about the first time I encountered the practice (though through this thread I just learned its name).

In the summer of '07, I was painting the interior of a new-construction house, large and higher-end for our area (~$700k). I had just finished painting the walls in the master bedroom and they were dry. One of the electrician's workers came in and installed some wall sconces where the bed was to be. After that, we called him, "Black Paw". So, I touched up the area. The homeowner shows up and decides she would prefer the sconces to be oriented the other way. Guess who changed them? Right--Black Paw. I touch up the walls AGAIN. Mind you, these sconces are not high off the ground, maybe 5' at most, so there's no reason to touch the wall when installing them. Needless to say the electrician is not my favorite person in the world at this point. Sometime between then and the final touch up phase of the job, which wasn't long, I noticed that the electrician (every contractor who knows him thinks he's more than a little odd) "clocked" his cover plate screws. So, one of my colleagues and I, giggling like little boys, started messing with them. We turned some of them randomly or put patterns in some. On a triple-gang switch plate, I arranged the top screws like this: / - \ with the bottom 3 screws mirroring the top 3. The next day, my partner in crime and I were talking when the electrician (Black Paw's boss) came in and started chatting with us for a little bit. As we're talking, his gaze was wandering...right up to the point where he noticed some of the "adjusted" screws. The look on his face was priceless. He fixated on the ones he noticed, grabbed a screwdriver and fixed them, then frantically looked around at others and fixed those. My colleague and I had to leave the room. We had exacted suitable revenge.

[Mark Ashmeade]

Poor man's way of clocking:

Drive screw home. If it will be too tight or too loose, back it out and use a different screw. Chances are the head will be at a different angle to the point than the first one. Only takes one or two goes to get it right.

My grandfather taught me that, a very long time ago. I get to Germany in the Army, and find that EVERY screw is either horizontal or vertical.

It's like parking neatly in a slot. Either you do it, or you don't. Your shoes are either polished, or scruffy. The lawn is edged, or it isn't.

I don't have time to do everything the right way, even if I know I'm doing it the wrong or lazy way. But clocking screws is neither difficult nor time consuming, so I do it.

[Edward A Miller]

George, consider this a handshake! No, we're not perfectly alike, but I do respect passion when it comes to a craft. I only 'clock' user-friendly projects in order to minimize skin cuts/scrapes when handling; for instance, a bunk bed ladder with the brass rd hd straight-slots (Shaker) facing 12:00-6:00 so a mis-step will slide harmlessly downward (yes, I file the slots burr-free if needed after using the correctly sized screwdriver!).

When I worked on aircraft engines, the fittings were safety-wired thru holes in the fastener with the tension on the wire always in the tightening position, sorta the same field of thought, just leaning more to the mechanical side. The wire was an artform in itself with no slack in the run and the trimmed end bent in a manner so as to not allow skin punctures during routine maintenance over the course of its lifetime.

I do have an issue with mixing different batches of fasteners, especially with hx hd bolts and those stamped markings on the head (as an example). My flat washers will ALWAYS be placed with the rounded edges 'up', UNLESS the washer will be sliding on a surface in which case the rounded side goes 'down' so it glides better and doesn't dig into the face of the item holding the 'slider'. Also, the different shades of sheetrock screws, (black-gray) bothers me; I hate it when the bulk hardware bins in hardware stores MIX the same items but from different suppliers!

Thanks guys for the education on 'clocking', and learning that I'm not so much of an oddity in this boat! We do this because of what we are; feels GOOD (inside)!

[Gary Kman]

Home-built aircraft are a perfect example of quality, or workmanship-gone-crazy, depending on your point of view. I've enjoyed looking at thousands of them at Oshkosh. Some, just arrived, required 25 years to build. I'm sure the screws (including Allen screws) were clocked. Others finished in one and flown all over creation for 24. Which builder did the RIGHT THING? Both as far as I'm concerned.

[David Kumm]

Whether you clock or not probably won't change the rotation of the planet but I think it's great we are talking about quality- real or percieved- rather than low price. Very little harm comes from raising standards, in woodworking or life. Dave

[Van Huskey]

Here's a clock (watch) where they are not clocked. And for $18K too.
Attachment 227209

Interesting. Below is a picture of a Audemars Piguet Royal Oak (the line runs form about the price of the Hublot you mentioned to over $1 million, yes I did say that). The Royal Oak is "clocked" in a very cool way. The one I show is the Grand Complication near the upper end of the range at about 3/4 million. They use this same clocking method through out the line.

[Neil Brooks]

Clocked screws are often a little too tight, or a little too loose.

A common misconception, Phil.

I clock, AND torque, all screws.

That often requires that I trim the screw shaft, use washers, change the boards in question, file down screw heads, and cut new slots, swap out fasteners, or any number of insanely laborious processes, but ... as we've just confirmed ... the Woodworking Gods MUST be appeased.

[Van Huskey]

Clocked screws are often a little too tight, or a little too loose.

That was my friends point, and he didn't see the point of all the fiddling to have them tight and clocked like one might on a gun.

[Neil Brooks]

It's like parking neatly in a slot. Either you do it, or you don't. Your shoes are either polished, or scruffy. The lawn is edged, or it isn't.

Hoh-Boy.

Amen. An old saying is, "As you do anything ... that's how you do everything."

By now, though, it's my considered opinion that those of us afflicted with this have shorter lifespans, and MAY reduce the lifespans of those around us, too

[Van Huskey]

I have clocked screws from time to time. But I'm curious, do you clock your phillips head screws or your square head screws? I'm afraid I have to agree Ian feelings on this one.

Almost all hardware I have ever had show was a slot head, the couple of times I had a phillips head screw show I clocked them as an X versus having either slot point vertical. It just seemed more pleasing.

[Van Huskey]

I don't post in this section much,but I was the toolmaker for Colonial Williamsburg.

George, if ANYONE here isn't familiar with you posts and the work you have presented in them they need to click on your name and track down some of your posts!

Folks seriously, if you haven't seen some of the things George has made you are in for a treat his skills are amazingly wide with both wood and metal.



These are just a few to get you started:

17th. C. Italian style guitar, George Wilson
An English Guitar, George Wilson
Carved Lions head for a violin, George Wilson
Chet Atkins guitar, George Wilson
1950's style arch top guitar, George Wilson
Lion's head on a violin, George Wilson
Art deco table and jewelry box, George Wilson
Open views of the Art Deco box, George Wilson
Flint Lock Target Pistol, George Wilson
Giant Screw, George Wilson
Giant nut for the screw above, George Wilson
Large Cider Press, George Wilson

This list was copied from the Neander FAQ

[Jason Roehl]

Hoh-Boy.

Amen. An old saying is, "As you do anything ... that's how you do everything."

By now, though, it's my considered opinion that those of us afflicted with this have shorter lifespans, and MAY reduce the lifespans of those around us, too

I consider it a symptom of OCD--tendencies of which run strongly in my family. I used to be very rigid in them as well. Now, not so much, as I started to see how much it affected others around me when I would be unyielding on things that just didn't matter. Yes, sometimes when working by myself I'll take something to the nth degree if it won't take too long and I want a little personal satisfaction, but I've found that as a friend of mine told me (he got it from a professor in seminary), "Don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good," is a great approach. Particularly when it comes to products for sale. What you can produce extremely well and what you can do profitably well are often two very different things. That $1M watch is very much a niche market--very limited and not accessible to most watchmakers.

Now, if you're going to extremes on your own projects, for yourself, then it's a different story. But, if that attention to detail weighs you down so much that you can't ever get any project done, perhaps you need to re-evaluate your approach.

[Alan Lightstone]

I knew there was a reason to not use screws in my woodworking. (An engineers answer to the question)

I'm impressed guys. I thought I had OCD at work (where in my job it truly saves lives).

Learned something new and shaking my head at the same time. Nice.

Now I have one more thing to obsess over when building. Knew I shouldn't have read Chris Schwartz's article.

[Eric DeSilva]

Every electrical cover plate my guys install must have the screw slots vertical.

Hate to be the one to tell you, but that's wrong. Mine are all horizontal.