Some updated shop lighting...

[Bob Falk]

I have 10 of the Costco Feit shop lights in my 22x24 shop and another 10 in my garage, basement, and wood storage area.....work great and more than enough light....I paid $35 each but have seen them as low as $28 since then.

[Ed Gibbons]

This light goes for 69 bucks. Some have posted much lower prices. Is this the same light as the cheaper ones? I think this is what Jim purchased.


http://www.costco.com/4’-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain,-2-pack.product.100223617.html

[Paul Lawrence]

Ed, that's a "2-pack" meaning there are two complete light assemblies. About $35 each.

[Jebediah Eckert]

This light goes for 69 bucks. Some have posted much lower prices. Is this the same light as the cheaper ones? I think this is what Jim purchased.


http://www.costco.com/4’-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain,-2-pack.product.100223617.html

I just bought 2 of those in-store for $29.99 each. They are nice because they are fully together and plug in ready. I have cheap big box 4 ft, 2 bulb, T8 fixtures in my shop. I bought the better GE "daylight" bulbs (4K I think). I put the LED's above my bench and tablesaw at the same height as the T8's. I do have to say I think the T8s were brighter in my setup and switched them back. However, they are a big improvement over the run of the mill T8 bulbs. I ended up using one at a different angle to my bench and it works nice to erase some shadowing. The other one I just swapped and put it over the outfeed table. My shop is in the basement with grey cement walls and 9' ceilings, maybe that has something to do with it. I'm going to give it more time to get used to because I would love to go LED, those T8 bulbs constantly go out. Maybe it's the cheap fixtures but every few days there is at least one bulb the needs to be twisted or adjusted to get it working again. The LEDs being more energy efficient is also a big plus.

[Greg R Bradley]

It's not a question of one technology being better than the other but choosing the best light for your use. Also, cheap fixtures are going to have problems in any technology. Bulbs that need to be adjusted in a T8 fixture sound like real junk.

If you are installing lights in low voltage DC system like a flashlight, car, boat, etc. then LED is the clear winner for efficiency. If you installing lights in a shop good T8, T5, and LED fixtures are all very similar in efficiency.

LED manufacturers are mostly new and are using a variety of marketing claims to sell their products. They will quote Lumens per Watt figures for the bare LED instead of the entire fixture. They are mostly using the L70 standard to rate their fixtures so at rated life they have lost 30% of their light, where florescent lamps are generally rated at 5% light loss. Of course the high end LED fixtures are also being rated at 5% light loss or average light output over their life - but they aren't $30.

I put 167 I-Beam 6 bulb T8 fixtures into a business that operated 24x7. Sylvania Octron 800XP XL lamps, which are rated at 84,000 hours. I believe the first ones used were an earlier bulb in the same series. We replaced them at 4 years of 24x7 use, gradually going to 6 year intervals, which is 52,500 hours. Most bulbs could only be changed every 6 months when production stopped for 4 days so we were being conservative and wanted to replace before any failures.

A big question at this point is how long each technology lasts in on/off situations. Most lights are rated when turned on and left on for 3 hours and the same for 12 hours. When you run a light for short periods do LED lights do better than florescents?

You can find a very few decent lights at BORGs but you will have to work at it. You won't find any decent T5 or T8 florescent bulbs.

[Jim Becker]

This light goes for 69 bucks. Some have posted much lower prices. Is this the same light as the cheaper ones? I think this is what Jim purchased.


http://www.costco.com/4’-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain,-2-pack.product.100223617.html

Yes, these are what I've used. I've put in a total of six of them in the key areas of my shop and the light is wonderful. Considering the home centers get $50 and more for just one similar fixture, I feel these are a good deal. And if they do fail, Costco pretty much takes anything back for customer satisfaction reasons.

[Barry Richardson]

Glad I found this thread, I've been considering the LEDs at Costco, and now that I see some good feedback, think I'm going to get em....

[Frank Pratt]

While I agree with most of what's said below, the information on lamp life is not entirely accurate. Fluorescent lamp life is rated as the number of hours at which 50% of the lamps have failed, as in, ceased to produce light. LED lamps are most commonly rated as the number of hours at which point they are producing 70% of original light output.

Fluorescent lamps have 2 light output ratings; initial lumens & mean lumens. Mean lumens is the average light output over the life of the lamp. The mean lumen rating for fluorescents typically ranges from about 77% to 85% of initial lumens. So a fluorescent lamp near the end of it's life may actually be putting out quite a bit less than an LED near the end of it's rated life, given comparable initial lumen ratings.

The LD70 rating is used because a drop in illumination to 70% of the initial level is the point at which the average person will notice that "hey, it's getting kinda dim in here".

With regards to the lamp output vs whole fixture output, this is where LED fixtures really shine (pun not intended). Conventional light sources (fluorescent, HID, incandescent) loose a lot of light in the optics (reflectors, lenses). LED light sources only emit light from the front of the source & it is a small source. The result is there is not a lot of light manipulation require & most of the light produces actually gets out of the fixture.

All that being said, the LED fixtures sold in Walmart, Sam's, Costco, etc really are a bunch of junk. They look great at first, but the color rendering is horrible & you can bet that 20,000 hours down the road they are going to be at a fraction of their initial output, if they're working at all.

Sorry for the rant.

Edit: I'm going to temper my comments a bit. The cheap LED fixtures may be a good choice for a hobby shop where lamp life isn't much of a concern or where accurate color is not an issue. Just go into it with your eyes open.

It's not a question of one technology being better than the other but choosing the best light for your use. Also, cheap fixtures are going to have problems in any technology. Bulbs that need to be adjusted in a T8 fixture sound like real junk.

If you are installing lights in low voltage DC system like a flashlight, car, boat, etc. then LED is the clear winner for efficiency. If you installing lights in a shop good T8, T5, and LED fixtures are all very similar in efficiency.

LED manufacturers are mostly new and are using a variety of marketing claims to sell their products. They will quote Lumens per Watt figures for the bare LED instead of the entire fixture. They are mostly using the L70 standard to rate their fixtures so at rated life they have lost 30% of their light, where florescent lamps are generally rated at 5% light loss. Of course the high end LED fixtures are also being rated at 5% light loss or average light output over their life - but they aren't $30.

I put 167 I-Beam 6 bulb T8 fixtures into a business that operated 24x7. Sylvania Octron 800XP XL lamps, which are rated at 84,000 hours. I believe the first ones used were an earlier bulb in the same series. We replaced them at 4 years of 24x7 use, gradually going to 6 year intervals, which is 52,500 hours. Most bulbs could only be changed every 6 months when production stopped for 4 days so we were being conservative and wanted to replace before any failures.

A big question at this point is how long each technology lasts in on/off situations. Most lights are rated when turned on and left on for 3 hours and the same for 12 hours. When you run a light for short periods do LED lights do better than florescents?

You can find a very few decent lights at BORGs but you will have to work at it. You won't find any decent T5 or T8 florescent bulbs.

[Greg R Bradley]

......
Sorry for the rant.

Doesn't sound like a rant at all.
The only thing I'm questioning is that the bulb spec sheets on the bulbs I'm using show mean lumens is 95% of Initial, measured at 40% of expected life. This matches my experience as well in that business. QA tested light level in the production area weekly. It was down 10-11% at 52,500 hours and we had some bulbs go out but not real surprising with 988 bulbs. My recommendation was change them at 4 years, 5 might be OK. New owners that insisted on 6 years made a continuation of other changes in cost savings.

I'm all for a $29 LED when you buy one and hang it over a bench for extra light and turn it on for a few hours a few times a week.

I've been running I-Beam High Bay 6 lamp T8, 4 lamp T5HO, and LED in my home shop as a test. Good fixtures, 85% downlight on the first, 100% downlight on the LED and T5HO. All match light output specs as tested with a light meter. All match specs as tested with a current meter. Almost identical lumens per watt. IF I needed them at 20' instead of 11', the LED might make sense but not until they come down in price a lot more. At 11', the extra size and slight uplight under the T8 make shadows nicer and are better to work under even if the light meter shows 8% less brightness.

Seriously considering setting up the LED with motion detector option so it goes on when I just walk in and grab something. I'm thinking it will last better under that use.

[Frank Pratt]

It was down 10-11% at 52,500 hours

Those are some great lamps. I was referring to more commonly used T8 & T5 lamps. We've installed lots of great LED lighting & I love it, but I agree that for lots of good quality light in an easy to maintain location, fluorescents are still the best value.

You can get Philips F32T8/TL950 lamp which is 5000K color temp & CRI of 98, which is outstanding.

[Jim Becker]

Frank, you do make some good points, but as you sorta also note, for those of us who are hobbyists, the number of hours of actual use isn't significant as compared to even a portion of the rated life of the LED fixture. In general of course. There will always be some unit that will fail early...it's the nature of electronics...but that's also true for ballasts and tubes for fluorescent fixtures. It will always be a "bet" in that respect. Given that the current crop of LED shop light fixtures have dropped in price to something similar to what one might pay for a decent fluorescent equivalent...and they are instant on even in the cold...they are very worthy of consideration, IMHO. I might change my mind if these Feit lamps die early and often, but again, Costco will refund my money if that happens. Cheerfully even. (Except for this one person who works their returns who has a permanent frown anyway... )

[Frank Pratt]

Jim, you are absolutely correct. I was just especially cranky when I wrote those comments. At work I have to deal with pricing LED installations where quality light is critical & having customers choke on the price & point out how cheap LEDs are on ebay.

[Frank Hagan]

Jim, you are absolutely correct. I was just especially cranky when I wrote those comments. At work I have to deal with pricing LED installations where quality light is critical & having customers choke on the price & point out how cheap LEDs are on ebay.

Since you have some experience with these, have you noted any problems with Wifi interference with the less expensive LEDs? I had read a couple of complaints about Costco LEDs causing interference, and I was concerned when I replaced my 3' fluorescent tubes in our bathroom with some from Hyperikon LEDs from Amazon at about $12 each (I think that was the brand name).

We have replaced most of our regular bulbs with LED but I haven't started on the shop yet.

[Frank Pratt]

I've not had much direct experience with cheap LED fixtures, just heard others tell of RF interference & strobing issues with some.

[Rob Lee CT]

You can find a very few decent lights at BORGs but you will have to work at it. You won't find any decent T5 or T8 florescent bulbs.

Where does one buy better T5 and T8 bulbs than the 10 or 12 packs at HD and Lowes? And how do we find the correct specs to know whether we're buying the right bulbs?