Narex Richter vs Stanley Sweetheart 750?

[Thomas Wilson]

Thomas, what did you use to work this chisel? From the photo it looks like there are deep pits in the surface, not to mention the sides and edges aren’t sharp. Are your stones flat?

I used very flat diamond steel plates. Flatness of the stone is not the problem. Unlike water stones that build up swarf that can conform to slight hollow and polish into it, the diamond plate shows every imperfection. It will just take some more work.

The spots are actually a little surface rust. I must have been a bit frustrated and did not dry and oil the chisel when I quit flattening the back. I used some steel wool to remove it. It oiled now

[Mike Brady]

It's too bad that Narex chose to machine polish their Richter chisels. Back in the days before LN and Lee Valley, Two Cherrys chisel's manufacturer committed that same error and even lacquered the blades. Eventually they faded from the popularity with woodworkers.

[Jacob Mac]

I have a full set of the Stanley Sweethearts, and I don't care for them. They were nowhere close to flat, don't hold an edge, and aren't balanced very well. The last is all subjective, they don't feel good in my hand. But the edge folding over is all Stanley's fault.

So I think you made a good choice bypassing the Stanley.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

At a local woodworking club meeting last week, I had the opportunity to fondle a set of Stanley Sweetheart chisels. For me, I think I made the right decision to stay with the Narex Richter. It's all subjective! It is merely a matter of personal opinion and preference.

[Bob Jones 5443]

I like Narex chisels; I've owned their standard set for many years. Recently I bought their two 1/4" skewed chisels. That brought back the memory from my first set: Narex uses a very tenacious coating on the metal for shipping. That coating must be scrupulously removed before any steps are taken to flatten the back. Maybe that's what's getting in the way, Thomas? The coating on mine was a bear to remove.

[Thomas Wilson]

Bob, no. The chisels are coated with oil. Wipes right off.

[Charles Guest]

It's too bad that Narex chose to machine polish their Richter chisels. Back in the days before LN and Lee Valley, Two Cherrys chisel's manufacturer committed that same error and even lacquered the blades. Eventually they faded from the popularity with woodworkers.

They sell them unpolished:

https://www.amazon.com/Cherries-500-.../dp/B01GIFFUC8

[Mike Brady]

Two Cherries was apparently the design inspiration for the notorious Aldi chisels of recent years. Is it true that Aldi is no longer selling Paul Sellers' favorite chisels in the U.S.?

[Rob Lee]

Hi Ken -

Narex has been hit hard by COVID - with lots of production disruption. We don't know when receive our earliest order (placed Aug 2020), let alone the six orders placed since then. The dates are jumping around a lot - as we update with information from the factory. We are currently showing a cluster of deliveries Around June 14th - but I have a low level of confidence that there will be enough available to release any for sale - most are spoken for.

Welcome to the new "normal".... long stock outages, punctuated by price increases, as plants scramble to secure raw materials, labor, and even transportation.

We have many vendors now quoting in excess of six months to supply - with lead times exceeding a year for some tools. We now have almost 1 1/2 years of inventory on order with Narex alone.

This is going to take the entire industry a long time to recover from.... I personally think things won't be back to normal for 12-18 months.

Cheers (I guess....),


Rob

[John C Cox]

They sell them unpolished:

https://www.amazon.com/Cherries-500-.../dp/B01GIFFUC8

I got a set of the unpolished Two Cherries chisels after hearing the siren song about the evils of machine polishing ruining geometry...

I should have gotten the polished ones, as the unpolished ones were nowhere close to flat. About half of them had humped backs. Yes, once I flattened them, they were flat, but from what I saw, they machine pre-heat treatment like so most other companies.

The second difference that folks don't talk about... The unpolished chisel set only has 2 or 3 different sizes of handles, where the polished chisel set has handles graduated for each individual blade.

And last... The unpolished set costs almost 50% MORE than the polished set because of market competition... So much for lowering cost by cutting frills and final finishing operations..

[Ken Fitzgerald]

Hi Ken -

Narex has been hit hard by COVID - with lots of production disruption. We don't know when receive our earliest order (placed Aug 2020), let alone the six orders placed since then. The dates are jumping around a lot - as we update with information from the factory. We are currently showing a cluster of deliveries Around June 14th - but I have a low level of confidence that there will be enough available to release any for sale - most are spoken for.

Welcome to the new "normal".... long stock outages, punctuated by price increases, as plants scramble to secure raw materials, labor, and even transportation.

We have many vendors now quoting in excess of six months to supply - with lead times exceeding a year for some tools. We now have almost 1 1/2 years of inventory on order with Narex alone.

This is going to take the entire industry a long time to recover from.... I personally think things won't be back to normal for 12-18 months.

Cheers (I guess....),


Rob

Rob,

Thanks for taking the time to give me a personal update!

When I shop, my wife will tell you I research everything to the maximum. In my research, I notice that most, if not all, respected retailers of woodworking tools are showing extended availability dates as well. Being retired from two well known global corporations, I have dealt professionally with parts coming from around the world. I understand the problem.

Thanks again for the update.

[Mike Brady]

Rob Cosman does a comparison between Richters and WoodRiver chisels in this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWoeCMX6JcE I see Rob as a craftsman and a salesman, and he is well quailified for both roles. I was impressed with his candor and I felt his objectivity was maintained. Those of you looking at Richters would be informed by his testing. I know I wouldn't buy more 750's based on my experience with the two I bought, not would I be happy with the Richters from his testing. The polished backs are definitely a drawback on an already rather thin chisel as you have to hand lap them to get them back to flat.

[Rick Dettinger]

Two Cherries was apparently the design inspiration for the notorious Aldi chisels of recent years. Is it true that Aldi is no longer selling Paul Sellers' favorite chisels in the U.S.?

Amazon lists some chisels that look just like the Aldi ones, called "Basement Cr-V Professional Wood Chisels". They are about $16 for the set of 4. I suspect that a factory in Asia somewhere makes these chisels, and prints whatever name on them that somebody wants. Some of the reviewers implied that the chisels were the same as the ones on Paul Sellers youtube channel. The reviews were generally positive for $4 chisels! The chisels are 10-5/8 inches long, half of which is handle.

Best,
Rick

[David Bassett]

Rob Cosman does a comparison between Richters and WoodRiver chisels in this video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWoeCMX6JcE I see Rob as a craftsman and a salesman, and he is well quailified for both roles. I was impressed with his candor and I felt his objectivity was maintained. Those of you looking at Richters would be informed by his testing. I know I wouldn't buy more 750's based on my experience with the two I bought, not would I be happy with the Richters from his testing. The polished backs are definitely a drawback on an already rather thin chisel as you have to hand lap them to get them back to flat.

"Feel" is very individual, so everyone's choices will be different even if there aren't price and availability differences.

I watched Cosman's video and I'm not sure I agree it presents an universal truth. He seemed to have two major complaints about the Richters, which seemed to be their bevel / back corners were rounded and that they were thin along their length. I have a WR Socket chisel and a Narax Richter chisel. Neither has sharp sides, both are rounded, though maybe, just maybe, the Richter a little more. It seems to me, with my sample size of one, that Rob drew a conclusion based on his sample size that could be attributed to manufacturing variation more than design variations. His other complaint was the thickness of the chisel body. Warren repeatedly has told us traditional chisels were thinner and this is preferable. I'll also leave this to personal preference, but anyone reading this thread should realize this would be a feature for some.

As far as providing my own review of my two of these chisels, can't do it. The Ashley Iles chisels, in similar price range, felt better to me and proved to meet my needs well. I never added to my single WR or Richter or used them much.

[David Bassett]

... Is it true that Aldi is no longer selling Paul Sellers' favorite chisels in the U.S.?

Don't know what they'll do in the future. But realize these were always seasonal, sold sometime before Father's Day most years. (Sort of an "end cap" feature in their basically grocery store.) OTOH- I do recall some discussion the Chisels had changed some in the last year or two. Not sure which you're remembering.

Amazon lists some chisels that look just like the Aldi ones, called "Basement Cr-V Professional Wood Chisels". They are about $16 for the set of 4. I suspect that a factory in Asia somewhere makes these chisels, and prints whatever name on them that somebody wants. Some of the reviewers implied that the chisels were the same as the ones on Paul Sellers youtube channel. The reviews were generally positive for $4 chisels! The chisels are 10-5/8 inches long, half of which is handle.

Best,
Rick

I'm pretty sure this is consistent with the Aldi chisel's origin, but the product from the same line can be specified differently. So same factory line doesn't necessary mean exactly the same quality. I remember seeing a Force, or something very similar, maybe Workforce, set that looked identical. I was thinking HF, but don't see that brand on their website. What they do carry doesn't look that different versus my memory though. (Found pictures, Aldi's were labeled Workzone and the HF ones have more ornate handles, so maybe a parts substitution or a competitor down the street.)

If I recall the Aldi set's buzz was not about their design, but rather the quality their clunky design seem to deliver at their bargain price. Mostly the heat treatment. Seems like, e.g. HF, suffer from hit or miss heat treatment, but the Aldi's seemed fairly consistent. I hope they're not gone, they provided a decent really cheap option and provided much sport for woodworkers, with better sets, reworking their rough spots.