Dovetail saw help needed

[Bill Moser]

Nick -
I also have the LN dovetail. The handle feels right (I don't like the feel of
the newer handles like those of Paragon or Freud). Incidentally, I learned to
cut dovetails (as well as stock preparation) from Ian Kirby's book,
"The Complete Dovetail". If you feel like reading up a little before your class,
Mr. Kirby provides the most thorough discourse on the full range of dovetail joints I've seen. Judging from the pics in the book, he uses relatively
inexpensive tools (Marples chisels, maybe a newer Freud or Garlick saw?)

[Nick Clayton]

Many thanks to all of your suggestions and helpful wisdom to an aspiring woodworker; not to mention kind offerings of sharpening saws! I truly enjoy the candor and respect you apply to each others varied opinions. I think that LN is the way to go for out of the box performance and local availability; plus woodcraft is having a sale this weekend by me.

I am still apprehensive about purchasing such a pricey purpose-built saw with such little experience. I have an older Freud gents saw that I may bring to the sharpener to have "touched up". I just feel a bit uneasy about having a Bentley without knowing how to drive; though I supposed you grow into things.

[Hank Knight]

Good choice, Nick. You won't be disappointed. For years I thought hand cut dovetails were a myth. I'd been trying to cut them with an Tyzak back saw I inherited from my father. It had the factory teeth and a lot of set. I couldn't cut worth beans with it. Then I had the opportunity to try a new LN Independence dovetail saw, and it was an epiphany. It cut straight and fast and it hugged the line like nothing I'd ever seen before. It was truly an eye opener for me. If you start with a good saw, you'll have a much easier time learning dovetails.
Hank

[Jeff Horton]

I went a totally nother direction. I bought a old saw from someone that refurbs them. I bought a dovetail and rip cut back saws, both for about $60 (for both). I have just started using these and they work perfectly. His sharpening work is excellent and he is very reputable. If your interested just PM me and I can get your his contact info.

[Bob Smalser]

Good heavens. Seventy-five and a hundred dollar dovetail saws for a beginner? You'll go broke before you even finish your first project.

I have three dovetail saws I use, all old Disstons, in different lengths and teeth. None of them cost more than 25 dollars. I also have a couple 15-dollar European dovetail saws beneath my bench I used successfully for decades. Drop by and I'll give them to you after we rehab them together. I's no big deal, I already have a couple kids of members on various forums far from home and dropping by for help.

3000 miles too far? Then find somebody like me in your town, there are plenty of us in woodworking clubs and guilds. Or find Woodenboat magazine's builders forum and ask for help, as I know several builders in your neck of the woods who would gladly help you along in the right direction.

[harry strasil]

Shucks, I have had no formal training to cut dovetails, and I have used, a rip saw, a crosscut, several back saws, a rip frame saw, a bow saw, several different types of dovetail saws and even cut them without sawing just a chisel. When I first started I didn't even lay them out, just the depth with a marking gauge and then just freehand cut the angle to the right depth. Just don't use a pencil to lay them out, use a sharp knife. Cut so you have a little to pare off with a sharp chisel and the fit like a medium glove on a large hand. LOL

[richard gebhart]

Keep in mind that "thin kerf" is ill-defined, whose width is rarely noted by seller or manufacturers. "Thin kerfs" vary between (0.12) 0.15" to .25". Sometimes the thickness can be important: a big deal. The one Garret sells is 0.15"--perfect for my needs, and the saw's quality is top notch (as with most of Garrett Wade's stuff.

I'm taking a class in September on hand cutting dovetails and need to purchase a saw for class. I've done a bit of research and have come to the conclusion that I need your expert/experienced advice. Having never cut a dovetail by hand and not knowing how much of it I am going to be doing (depends on how I enjoy the class I suppose) I'd rather not spend a small fortune on a dovetail saw. On the other hand I hate having tools that do not perform; I think a good example for reference is that I'm perfectly happy with my Irwin/Marples chisels.

So I've found a saw made in Sweden by Paragon that is sold by Garrett Wade that has similar geometry to the Adria and Lie-Nielsen saws and costs a mere $50 instead of $130. I've looked at the Pax/Lynx and Spear & Jackson saws, but the kerfs are over 50% wider than the previously mentioned saw (from what little I understand of cutting dovetails this is not good) and again at $100 cost considerably more than the Paragon.

I guess my question is has anyone had or heard of anyone with experience, good or bad, with the Paragon saw? If not could you give a beginner some tutelage in the art of buying a dovetail saw?

Cheers,
Nick

[Frederick Skelly]

keep in mind that "thin kerf" is ill-defined, whose width is rarely noted by seller or manufacturers. "thin kerfs" vary between (0.12) 0.15" to .25". Sometimes the thickness can be important: A big deal. The one garret sells is 0.15"--perfect for my needs, and the saw's quality is top notch (as with most of garrett wade's stuff.

necrothread

[Jim Koepke]

necrothread

When first seeing this, it was surprising to see no comments of mine.

That is when the start date was noted, a year before my first visit here.

Zombie Thread.jpg

Often referred to as "Zombie Threads."

Night of the Living Thread.jpg

Don't feel bad, we have mostly all performed the resurrection rituals once or twice.

jtk

[Rick Dettinger]

The prices pretty much give the zombie thread away. I would like to be able to buy a LN dovetail saw today for $130. Beginners like myself can just use a hacksaw or a coping saw. We will be using our chisels more to pare to the lines, in any event. Experienced workers just pare a few thousands of compressed wood away, and bang the joints together. Easy, if you can do it! At least, they make it look that way.

73,
Rick

[steven c newman]

Depending on the thickness of the wood..either a Disston No. 4 , 14" , 9ppi backsaw (3/4" and up) or a Disston No. 68 for the thinner stuff I build...both done while sitting on a shop stool at the end of my bench.....hard on my back, nowadays, to stand there hunched over....and yes, I do use my chisels...seeings how I do NOT own a fret saw.
Cut on the waste side of the layout lines, leave as much line as you can...pare for fit..nothing hard about it...

[Thomas McCurnin]

First, the type of saw will not help you if your technique sucks. You can cut perfect dovetails with a used Stanley back saw, or screw them up with a $300 hand made saw. Focus on technique first.

I learned from the school where Paul Sellers taught, and consequently use his technique. Proper layout with a .5mm mechanical pencil. Leave the line. Focus on posture and make a few dozen practice cuts, like before playing a round of golf, going to the driving range to hit a few buckets of balls to get your technique down. Once you can cut straight, you're good to go. A sharp chisel also helps. I'd recommend watching his video and practicing at home before you go to the class. Also Rob Cossman has a couple good videos that teach good fundamentals, although he seems to make the subject more complicated than it needs to be, but I genuinely like the man.

Second, the saw is all about comfort for your hand. So getting one that fits your hand will improve technique. Bad Axe Saws out of San Diego makes a good product with three sizes of handles.

[mike stenson]

Bad Axe moved out of Superior, Wisconsin?

[Jim Koepke]

As Thomas wrote:

Second, the saw is all about comfort for your hand.

One of my often expressed thoughts on purchasing a tool is try to get a hands on feel for it if possible.

Most of my saws have had work done on the handles with rasps, files, gouges and sandpaper in order to make them more comfortable in my hand.

For one of my dovetail saws, a Ron Bonz kit was purchased that didn't come with a handle. For the feel in the hand it is my favorite for cutting dovetails. > https://sawmillcreek.org//showthread.php?249983

jtk

[steven c newman]

Plus...one can always sit down, while they work..
Poplar Box Project, hand sawing.JPG
And just relax..