Which Miter saw to buy? Need help.

[Jack Morrow]

I've had a Bosch 10" slider for years and am very pleased with it. I like the detents and the clamp that I find very handy. The original blade works very well.

I would also say that I disagree that a jig saw is safer than a mitre saw. Both can be used in a safe or unsafe manner. I don't fell that there is anything inherint in the Bosch slider design thats puts me in an unsafe position. But, YMMV.

The bottom line for me is I don't have "tool envy" when I see another slider and for me, that's about as high a compliment as a tool can receive.

Good luck and cut safely,

Jack

[Gary Sostrin]

I have never done cutting of laminate flooring, but I loaned out my Makita LS1013 and it performed well to my friend who used it. When I got it back, I found the fence had to be squared because of material being slammed against it. I guess the hold down screws were not tight enough.

Also stay away from the 12 inch blade models because the saw blades get expensive. I can use some (not all) blades interchangeably between my PM66 such as a laminate blade. I know about the 5 degree hook on miter saw blades.

[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Gary/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Gary/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/IMG]gary

[Bob Swenson]

Don't you love it when those overseas guys talk about the Festool we can't buy.

[Henk Marais]

Bob

We must get our own back somehow

We also subscribe to mags like FWW and have to drool over your tools with the raving reviews that is not available to us.

Believe me my shop would have looked a lot difrent if I had the choises you guys have. When I go to my local tool shop I only have a choice between realy exspensive imported goods from Europe or cheep knockoffs from plases unknown.

[James K Peterson]

I know Mr. Allweiss asked about a CMS or SCMS original, and didn't want to use his CS, but could he get the EZ and the use just the single CS for both the cross and rips? (personally, I'm laying laminate and I already have a SCMS: Makita L1013. But I plan on buy the EZ to use for the rips instead of using my crappy benchtop table saw)

[Josh LaFrance]

You should think about how much flooring you are really going to lay and if you've got a good need for a CMS after this project. Most of the cross cuts for a flooring job are to fit the board to the edge of a room where the end of the board is going to be covered with molding anyway. While most of us look for any excuse to buy a new tool, you don't always need it. If you want to save some money, get the appropriate blade for your circular saw, grab a plastic triangle square thingy and make your crosscuts.

[Allen Bookout]

If you want to save some money, get the appropriate blade for your circular saw, grab a plastic triangle square thingy and make your crosscuts.

Now I ask you, how much fun is that when you can buy a new tool? However, I do agree.

[Matt Meiser]

A SCMS would be a nice tool to have, but I find that a 12" CMS does everything i need other than an occasional really wide board. Mine is a Porter Cable which was a refurbished unit purchased about 5 years ago. Before that I had a Delta 10" CMS which was a little too small for my needs.

In my shop, the CMS gets used for rough crosscutting, almost any crosscutting for shop or home repair/remodeling "stuff", and final crosscutting of larger stuff. For smaller, precision stuff I general tend to use my Incra miter gauge on the TS which I find to be ultra accurate. Where I need high precision, I find it easier to line up the cut on the TS than the CMS.

[Lean Angle]

I bought a craftsman 12" slider that I kind of regret....and that regret is actually not stemming from it being a craftsman

The slider just takes up too much room in my shop, and it is too heavy when I want to use it outside the shop. If I had it to do over again, I'd have bought a standard 12".

Sure there are times that the extra cutting capacity comes in handy, but I don't think that is as often as it has been a PIA.

[Bob Feeser]

I have never done cutting of laminate flooring, but I loaned out my Makita LS1013 and it performed well to my friend who used it. When I got it back, I found the fence had to be squared because of material being slammed against it. I guess the hold down screws were not tight enough.

Also stay away from the 12 inch blade models because the saw blades get expensive. I can use some (not all) blades interchangeably between my PM66 such as a laminate blade. I know about the 5 degree hook on miter saw blades.

[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Gary/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/IMG][IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Gary/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot-1.jpg[/IMG]gary

Gary, I too have the Rousseau 2875XL miter saw stand, and I use it with my LS1212. I love the stop with measure system. The Rousseau is super beefy, folds out to a huge span, and folds down every easily to a 36" wide area.
Pertaining to the friend returning the saw with the fence out of whack, you are right, he probably slammed the wood against it. Not so much that he hit the fence with the wood, but rather started his plunge, before starting the saw, then, not unlike a router, when you place it on the workpiece before starting, it grabs the wood, and takes off. Well in the case of the miter saw, it grabs the wood, and tries to send it flying through the back of the fence. In my review at Amazon, I scolded the many who were letting 6 different people use the saw, and when the fence got beat up, they were accusing Makita of making an inferior saw. You were not doing that, but it is because of the plunge before starting the saw sufficiently that leads to that problem. If you look at the picture of the saw, or for you looking at your saw, you realize that their is a design limitation as to how much material they can put in the middle of the fence, while still keeping the fence out of the way of the blade. The problem is that the aluminum fence gets bent in the middle, where the material has to be light. They could build it with a cast iron fence, then all of the trim guys wouldn't want to lug it around.
Another problem some of them were having, with others using their saw, that they did not understand the the locking knob was made with fine threads for a reason, and only partially unwinding the locking knob, let's say a half a turn, then would then change the miter setting, thereby scoring, or stripping the rod, and or holders. Then they complain when they break it. I know you are not saying this, I am mentioning it as a general use statement. It is a tough, totally accurate, brute workhorse, while also being a very fine delicate saw.
I also have a PM66, and have a super accurate Delta Deluxe Miter Gauge with hold down system, but I am getting such accurate cuts with the Makita slider on the Rousseau stand, that I don't hesitate to make all of my cuts on it. I must admit that some of these high end miter guages, especially the ones with the stops, look mighty inviting, and a lot of the guys here are getting perfect results when using a standard or hot rodded miter gauge, like by putting fine sandpaper on the surface to prevent the workpiece from sliding. To me it's all about accuracy. If you have a saw, or a mitre gauge, and it is giving you accuracy, that is all you need.

[Bob Feeser]

Another consideration when picking out DCMS, or even a non slider, is how is the handle constructed. Does it allow for cuts with either hand. Is the switch positioned on the handle to allow that? The Makita with the handle, being in the upright position, with the switch at the top, allows you to cut with either your left hand or right. You may say, but I am right handed, and I cut that way. That is not neccessarily so. Sometimes, you want to hold your workpiece of to either side, and that neccessitates you using whichever hand is off to the other side. So in other words, a handle design, that is engineered to be ambidexterous is beneficial. If it has a side to side handle, with the switch on either end, do you turn it on with your pinky sometimes?
Another point to consider is how accurate is the slider? Does it feel tight? One model, and i won't mention any names, when I went into Home Depot to get a grip on the different sliders, and they had several of the top makes back then, one manufacturer must have used square ball bearings, because I felt like the saw was bumping down the road, on it way to making a cut. Seriously. (Of course they didn't use square ball bearings, but whatever they did, it wasn't smooth)
The overall feel of the saw, when you are coming down on the cut will tell you a lot.
How quiet or loud is the saw?
As far as designing where to place the motor, do you place it behind the saw, and run fan belts to it, thereby creating vibration? Or do you place the motor straight out on side, and limit yourself to how much right tilt you can get with the motor in the way? Or do you use a direct drive, maximizing the motor efficiency and power, while tilting it at a 45 angle to get it out of the way, while maximizing the right tilt angle? The net result is the Bosch gives you up to a 47 degree capacity, and the Makita gives you a comparable 48. The belt drive vibration problem is not worth mentioning on a heavy table saw, with a cast iron trunion, but on a slider with a motor, and a saw way out on the end of a bracket, vibration comes into play.
The other thing is that you are mentioning that you want to use it to cut laminate flooring. I understand, but I do not judge my saw purchases on just one task alone. If I did that, I would be buying a different saw for each job I was doing. Rather I buy the saw that will give me the most universal applications, and do them all well.
Forget about dust collection, quite frankly they all do a poor job of that. Pertaining to the light, and laser, if you need portabiity, they are nice features to have. If you have it mounted on a Miter stand, with a large light overhead, and a stop system, with a measuring tape, you don't need them.
All of the top names make an arguably wonderful saw. To me accuracy is the game. When you take the Makita out of the box, and make a compound cut, both miter, and bevel, at the same time, and break out the Bosch digital protractor, which measures angles in tenths of a degree, and it isn't even off by one tenth of a degree on the miter or bevel, you know you have an accurate saw. A tenth of a degree is like placing 3600 dots in a circle, and no matter how small the circle. It isn't off by even one of them. Therefore, you would need to use a measuring device that measures in a hundredth of a degree to see how accurate it is. That is equivalent to to 36,000 dots in a circle, not matter how small the circle. You get the idea, it doesn't get any more accurate than that.
As a matter of fact, a magazine that I quote in my review, was placing the LS1013 in their own shop after reviewing it. I am sure their are some other magazines that place the Bosch up there as well, and rightly so. Like I said I have been out of the tool buying mania, and review process for the last couple of years, but one thing I know for sure, accuracy is accuracy, whether it happened yesterday, or several years ago.

Here is a copy and paste from my review at Amazon, quoting the magazine reviews word for word.

Consider what Popular Woodworking had to say about it. "We can't recommend this tool enough. It's won every award this magazine gives out, and has earned a permanent place in our shop because it's tough and accurate."

Workbench Magazine gave its brother the LS1212 their editors choice award. Here is some of what they said about it. "Makita LS1212 proved to be the superior saw in this test on almost every count. It is compact, powerful, and dead on accurate. The saw made perfect bevels, miters, and compound cuts using only the factory detents for setup."

In ToolsOfTheTrade.com Tool test for sliding compound miter saws, without going into all of the elaborate criteria they used for each and every aspect of DSCMiters, they said in their Winners section; "Without a doubt, my overall favorite saw is the 10-inch Makita LS1013. The company's engineers really thought the design of this model through.

After all of the research I would conduct on each and every tool before I purchased it, I felt confident saying, as a title to my review, "Simply put, it is the best compound slider out there period." I was so impressed with the LS1212, when Aamzon ran a special tool discount, reducing the LS1013 to only $399, while Makita was giving away a free 14.4 cordless drill that normally sold for a hundred bucks, as a special bonus on every purchase, I bought the LS1013 as well. I planned on selling the Makita cordless drill on eBay, but soon fell in love with the drill as well. Since it is so super light, I use it all of the time. The Milwaukee 14.4 hammer drill with carbide serrated, "never drop a bit" teeth, and heavy duty torque ratings, is something I keep for when I need it. I use that more often for hammer drilling, than the corded Milwuakee hammer drill that I have, that almost snapped my wrist off when drilling through a wall. It sheared the depth gauge off at the time. Now I am a little afraid of it. Am I getting off on a tangent here? I love the tools too much. Tool buying fever sure beats gambling, and it is a lot more fun.

[Bryan Rocker]

I was in the hunt for a CMS about a year and a half ago. I determined that for my needs I was better to get a 12" non-slider, space issues. I looked and compared saws and finally bought the 12" Delta CMS. It comes with dual lasers and works like a champ. Once I adjusted the lasers to my personal settings I love them. I used a Dewalt 10" out on the job site occasionally, I sure do miss the lasers. One last note, while a jig saw will cut a relatively straight line, it is nothing compared to a CMS regardless of the size. The original Delta blade is OK.

ON a side note a buddy of mine has a 12" Bosch slider. He had horrible problems with accuracy. After doing some research he found the very small end bearing slightly worn. He replaced it and it has regained some of its accuracy. As with all tools you buy the best tool in the world but if its a tool produced on a bad day you could have a lemon.

[Graham Skinner]

I just put down some laminate flooring in my basement, I used my 10" mitre saw (had to turn the laminate over to finish the cut because 10" was not enough to cut all the way through the strips).
I found that this laminate flooring stuff realy buggered up my 80T crosscut blade so had to pay to get it resharpend.
Another thing that I noticed was that there was the odd spark or two when cutting this stuff (dont know way, must be metal or some thing in it !!!) so a proper laminate cutting blade would have been a good idea, but they seem to be a bit pricey $80 plus at my home depot.
I think that if I had to do the basement again, I would just scribe a line and cut it with my jig saw.

Regards....Graham...

[Barry Allweiss]

I'm close to making my SCMS purchase, either the Bosch 4410L or Makita LS1013FL. Still having a tough time deciding since so many people say great things about each...(thanks for the feedback!)

I went to look at buying a Ridgid MSUV from someone a few blocks away in anticpation of the saw. This retired gentleman has a barely used Ridgid MS1290LZ SCMS with the Ridgid MSUV for $330 total. It's 2 years old but only used for some ~20 small bird houses and seems to run great.

Is this a good buy for a 12" SCMS and MSUV?
or is this Miter saw no good?

[Charles McKinley]

I think the Ridgid MSUV is the best stand available unless you spend twice the money. I know nothing about the Ridgid 12" SCMS. I am very happy with the Makita 1013.

Ask the man if he will let you try it out. There are some tune up tips posted here. Make a few cut and see if it meets your needs. If it does I think it is a good deal as the new MSUV is $169 here in PA.

If you move the saw around at all you will LOVE this stand. Per Swenson posted a very positive review of the stand if you want to read ore about it. They have redisigned the stand but a lot of the key feature are still there: easy to set up, can be stood verticle for storage, easy to set stops. It looks like the new design will be easier to adapt to different equipment.