Above 5, anyway ....Originally Posted by Daniel Shnitka
Member
Above 5, anyway ....
Member
After receiving a bad kickback into my gut(drew blood)and worse cut of my finger all in one move, I got a SawStop. Actually, SWMBO ordered me to get one.
Member
Regardless of how accurate the actual number of saves by SawStop are, the thing that is most telling to me is that there has NEVER been a report that someone had an accident on a SawStop where the safety mechanism failed to go off.
Member
Possible, but I don't think so. SS has analyzed the data from 1000's of these cartridges and seem to know the signatures left by common causes for triggers. For every cartridge I've sent them, they've called me back and discussed what caused the event. On one occasion SS actually asked us to do something again to try to discern the cause. Eventually it was determined that black museum board has carbon in it and can cause the saw to stop.
Unless somebody uses a finger for a demo, SS can tell the difference. The electronic signature of a hot dog is apparently distinctly different than that of a living finger. SS probably can't afford to replace cartridges from every yahoo with a wiener. The $70 price tag seems to be just enough of a dis-incentive to show off the feature. We did it once with a free cartridge SS gave us. I'm tempted to do it every time I teach a class, but I don't.
I've wondered about this but haven't asked SS. I don't think SS would take the chance of re-using any of the external parts of the brake as they usually have easily discernible damage. The may re-use the electronics, but there really isn't much in there so I doubt it. I'll ask next time I talk to SS.
-kg
Member
Good thread. It's nice to see a good discussion on SawStop for a change. I have no doubt that the numbers quoted by SawStop are accurate. Many of the table saw accidents aren't reported on forums like this, but enough are to convince me that the saw is worth the money for me. I'm sure, however, that we'll all hear when one fails to work and someone is seriously injured.
Member
when I was ten years old (I"m now 78) I was helping my father make a top for a sauerkraut tub my job was to turn the saw on and off .Somehow i rested my elbow on the table when I turned on the saw Zap I was taken to a surgeon who stiched me up and
said the cut just missed the main nerve to my hand. Took me about a year before arm worked properly again . Have an 8 inch scar to remind me for the rest of my life.Care to guess how many of my kids Total of six do wood working?
Walt
Member
I'll bite. Six of 'em.
Member
My local western tool supply had sold one to a cabinet shop a couple months ago. 1 week after they got it the owner put is hand into the blade. Didn't even need stitches. They have a picture of it on the saw on display in the store now.
Member
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In all cases, a properly installed guard, and / or safer operations would have prevented the injury. Is a SawStop necessary, no, but I now have one.
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Good point, I think those who can afford it, will buy one, those who can't will have to be more careful.
Al
Remember our vets, they need our help, just like they helped us.
Member
Kevin,
Thanks for the additional info. It sounds like they are constantly tried to work on QC and software updates for the recognition algorithms. I'm impressed!
The electronics would probably be the first thing to be damaged by a 10G shock from the mechanism activation. IMHO the mechanical parts are much more likely to be able to be refurbished (as they are in the auto parts industry).
Member
I think an interesting statistic would be how many accidents were due to not using the installed guards. I do like the concept of the SawStop but at the same time if you use the right guards I would expect the total number of serious accidents would decline.
Maybe I'm one of the few, but I have my guard on 99% of the time for rips and crosscuts. Only on a very occasion do I not have it on. I definately feel more comfortable with it on.
my 2 cents.
Member
OK Group,
Ignoring the legislative efforts of Saw Stop which I despise, I am absolutely thrilled with the technology. I looked through the SawStop at a local woodcraft. I'm a mechanical engineer and designer. My take on the Saw Stop is that it is an exceptionally GOOD design. If a multi-tripped saw does have bearing issues, which hasn't been true of the demo units I've seen at local Woodcrafts, is that a big deal? Often parts that save people cause damage to the base unit in excess of there own cost. Someone mentioned a car air bag as an example. My point is that if the saw made a major save, AND YOU HAD TO THROW THE SAW AWAY AFTERWARDS YOU WOULD STILL BE WAY AHEAD! We know that usually the only replacement needed is a replacement cartrige and blade. I have often heard from others on the forum of Saw Stop comping owners for cartriges that went off in wet wood, you simply can't do any better than that!
When Volvo's were first imported into the United States they required that they REMOVE the seat belts! Goverment stupidity. There seems to be a thread here that this technology is unnecessary, which is not correct. This is a technology that already has a large base of saves to it's credit both large and small. I would never ask you to take the anti-lock brakes off your car because "it works perfectly well without it." The real point is that it works better and more importantly SAFER with it. I will buy a Saw Stop when I can afford it, not just for the brake, but because it is a excellent saw AND has the brake. SWIMBO has already signed off on it, and that ain't easy. These threads seem to brake down into arguements about SS good, SS bad. That is too bad because it is the case of missing the forest for the trees, not a great idea on a WW forum! My $0.02.
Bill Jepson
Contributor
That is absolutely true! Even if you only considered the medical bill and did not consider the loss of functionality in your life it would still be true.
Mike
Go into the world and do well. But more importantly, go into the world and do good.
Member
I couldn't agree more Bill. Some people seem to argue that if you just use the blade guard, operate safely, etc... then you don't need to spend the money for the Sawstop.
Bill used the example of anti-lock brakes. I'll use the example of the worlds safest car. Seatbelts, side airbags, anti-lock brakes, bullet proof glass, a skilled driver, and puncture proof tires will not protect you from a semi-truck driver who crosses the yellow line.
Very experienced woodworkers have accidents, and there but by the grace of God go any of us. Sometimes it is something completely unforeseen. It could be a hidden knot, a distraction from someone coming in the shop, or just plain ol' inattention. Accidents happen. I know at least 10 men who have lost fingers and most of them were more experienced than me.
I came very close a few months ago to a complete disaster. A friend came to my shop and borrowed a piece of lumber. I didn't notice a board balancing precariously on the top of my wood rack a few feet away from the tablesaw. It tipped and fell as I was ripping plywood and the slam on the top of the table startled me, shifting the plywood and kicking back into my gut. Fortunately my hand was clear of the blade, but there are other times when my hand could have gone right into the blade.
It seems simple to me. You have a much better chance of avoiding serious injury if you have a Sawstop and practice safe technique. What could be controversial about that?
Yes Dear, I could build that for you if I only had that new ...
Member
I tend to believe SS claims for the number of claims. However, I do believe that having the SS lulls some people into a sense of security that might lead to blade contact (such as the guy who slapped a TS top while telling a story, and slapped right on top of the blade... no bladeguard, not in use, blade spinning).
The SS website shows almost every shot of their TS WITHOUT a bladeguard. This reinforces the thought of safety without a bladeguard?
CPSC data is extrapolated for the year of 2001 based upon about one month worth of data, so there is probably some error in the numbers... but not enough to really care about.
The CPSC analysis of TS injuries in 2001 estimates 38,000 injuries due to tablesaws. 50-78% (28% said "unknown") of TS involved did not have a blade guard, and 57-90% (33% said "unknown") did not have a splitter. 86% were blade contact, 14% were due to hits by ejected wood. Amputations accounted for 9% of the injuries.
http://www.cpsc.gov/LIBRARY/FOIA/FOIA03/os/powersaw.pdf
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