4th of July

[Kent A Bathurst]

.....July 2nd 1776..............

Annnnd.....

We have a winner. An educated, historically precise, scholar.

What we know as The Declaration of Independence was published on July 4, as a vehicle to explain to the Colonies, and the World, why the Lee Resolution - originally proposed by Richard Henry Lee of Virginia on June 7 - was adopted on July 2.

So - the true date on which action was taken was July 2, as Dave points out.

But - the PR guys cranked it up on the 4th, and that is what we celebrate.

[Dave Anderson NH]

Reading real history instead of the shortened, softened, bowdlerized pabulum which was fed to us in school can be a real awakening. If you look deeply into the Declaration written by Adams and Jefferson you do indeed see most of what RH Lee wrote earlier and to carry it even further both borrow heavily from John Locke and Rousseau and other Enlightenment authors in their writings, often verbatim. The formation of the American Confederation and later the USA is a complex and fascinating story. Right now I'm slowly wading through one of the most alluded to "documents" in our history. The quotation marks are there because it is not actually a document but rather a series of newspaper articles that together make up The Federalist Papers. The papers are referred to often when discussing/arguing about the intent of the founding fathers and all kinds of issues surrounding our constitution and the powers of government. Unfortunately few who quote them or cite them have actually read all of them. Between the differences in the writing styles of Hamilton, Madison, and Jay, the ornate 18th century language, the repetition between individual papers, and the constant references to classical Greek and Roman literature and government, it is very slow going. It is however a fascinating sales pitch and well worth the time if you have a serious interest in our history.

[Howard Garner]

Most remember the battles from Virginia and north.
But the South had several battles that were decisive in the large scheme of the war
Just to mention some of the local ones.
The Battle of 96 (South Carolina)
The Battle of Cowpens (South Carolina)
The Battle of Kings Mountain and the Over Mountain men (North Carolina just over the border from SC)

Howard, a transplanted Yankee, Garner

[Frederick Skelly]

Most remember the battles from Virginia and north.
But the South had several battles that were decisive in the large scheme of the war
Just to mention some of the local ones.
The Battle of 96 (South Carolina)
The Battle of Cowpens (South Carolina)
The Battle of Kings Mountain and the Over Mountain men (North Carolina just over the border from SC)

Howard, a transplanted Yankee, Garner

Yeah, we forget about that. I can't recall the details, but Francis Marion ("The Swamp Fox") gave the brits a serious hard time. That man had nerve. I stumbled across his gravesite while wandering once. It's tucked into a woods just a bit off a busy road in SC. Beautiful resting place for another Hero.

[David Ragan]

Yeah, we forget about that. I can't recall the details, but Francis Marion ("The Swamp Fox") gave the brits a serious hard time. That man had nerve. I stumbled across his gravesite while wandering once. It's tucked into a woods just a bit off a busy road in SC. Beautiful resting place for another Hero.

Buffalo Bill's grave site off I-25 overlooks the backside of Colorado's 'front range' just west of Denver

[Mark Blatter]

Two thoughts.

1. Washington is one of the most underrated generals and characters from history. Who today (this is not meant to be political at all, but human nature) from any political party, would do what he did? He did not accept becoming the King of the new country, he stepped down after two terms, setting a precedent for almost 150 years. Our country would not be around if not for him.

2. We focus too much, or perhaps tend to ignore, the years immediately after the war ended. The second Constitutional Convention and how the current Constitution came about. I watch what has happened during and in the aftermath of the 'Arab Spring' and wonder how the Founding Fathers did it.

Perspective is critical too. We call it a war of revolution, or a war to determine our own destiny. The Brits call it the war of insurrection, a rebellion against our lawful King and Ruler.

[Frederick Skelly]

Two thoughts.

1. Washington is one of the most underrated generals and characters from history. Who today (this is not meant to be political at all, but human nature) from any political party, would do what he did? He did not accept becoming the King of the new country, he stepped down after two terms, setting a precedent for almost 150 years. Our country would not be around if not for him.

2. We focus too much, or perhaps tend to ignore, the years immediately after the war ended. The second Constitutional Convention and how the current Constitution came about. I watch what has happened during and in the aftermath of the 'Arab Spring' and wonder how the Founding Fathers did it.

Perspective is critical too. We call it a war of revolution, or a war to determine our own destiny. The Brits call it the war of insurrection, a rebellion against our lawful King and Ruler.

I've always wanted to read a brittish textbook describing it from their perspective. My guess is that it would look like a northern description of the American civil war. I have read some brittish views that the king seriously screwed up and inflamed things.

Washington was a good and honorable man. He did far more good than harm and you're right - the Nation might not exist if not for him. But he was human and made mistakes like everyone else does.

[Ken Fitzgerald]

The problem with reading "history" IMO is that it can often take on the personal, biased view of the writer. Thus I think you have to "filter" what you read with a little skepticism paying more attention to the overall "flavor" and not necessarily the detail when people are described. There is not doubt all of these figures Washington, Jefferson and the other notables played a significant part in the founding of our country. Too many writers have written about them for it all to be wrong and completely biased.

From all of the historical writings though you can garner that there was a serious amount of disagreement among those involved in writing our Constitution and establishing the basis of the government. And yet, in the end, they all recognized the importance of what they were about to do, were able to put aside their differences, to compromise and provide input to form the basis of the government that still stands today.

The only thing in life that is guaranteed is change. Nothing remains the same. This government will always need tweaking from time to time. It has and will stand as long as we can realize the need to put aside our personal desires for the greater good of the whole country.

I stand in awe of our founding father's intelligence and foresight.

[Frederick Skelly]

The problem with reading "history" IMO is that it can often take on the personal, biased view of the writer. Thus I think you have to "filter" what you read with a little skepticism paying more attention to the overall "flavor" and not necessarily the detail when people are described. There is not doubt all of these figures Washington, Jefferson and the other notables played a significant part in the founding of our country. Too many writers have written about them for it all to be wrong and completely biased.

From all of the historical writings though you can garner that there was a serious amount of disagreement among those involved in writing our Constitution and establishing the basis of the government. And yet, in the end, they all recognized the importance of what they were about to do, were able to put aside their differences, to compromise and provide input to form the basis of the government that still stands today.

The only thing in life that is guaranteed is change. Nothing remains the same. This government will always need tweaking from time to time. It has and will stand as long as we can realize the need to put aside our personal desires for the greater good of the whole country.

I stand in awe of our founding father's intelligence and foresight.

I agree with you on all points Ken! Happy 4th!

[Phil Thien]

All I've got is happy 4th everyone!

Moses, pass the brats!!!

[David Ragan]

The problem with reading "history" IMO is that it can often take on the personal, biased view of the writer. Thus I think you have to "filter" what you read with a little skepticism paying more attention to the overall "flavor" and not necessarily the detail when people are described. There is not doubt all of these figures Washington, Jefferson and the other notables played a significant part in the founding of our country. Too many writers have written about them for it all to be wrong and completely biased. .

Somebody said that history is written by the victors.

It is very interesting how some writers can go into great detail about how a statesman's personal experiences/family life, etc influences the decisions that they make that effect so many others.

I've always wanted to read a brittish textbook describing it from their perspective. My guess is that it would look like a northern description of the American civil war. I have read some brittish views that the king seriously screwed up and inflamed things.

Washington was a good and honorable man. He did far more good than harm and you're right - the Nation might not exist if not for him. But he was human and made mistakes like everyone else does.

I had the poor judgment to ask a British fellow a few years ago what the Brits did on July 4th. Of course, he was mildly offended, and shot back, 'what do you expect, us to cry in our beer?' An awkward moment.

Two thoughts.

1. Washington is one of the most underrated generals and characters from history. Who today (this is not meant to be political at all, but human nature) from any political party, would do what he did? He did not accept becoming the King of the new country, he stepped down after two terms, setting a precedent for almost 150 years. Our country would not be around if not for him.

2. We focus too much, or perhaps tend to ignore, the years immediately after the war ended. The second Constitutional Convention and how the current Constitution came about. I watch what has happened during and in the aftermath of the 'Arab Spring' and wonder how the Founding Fathers did it.

Perspective is critical too. We call it a war of revolution, or a war to determine our own destiny. The Brits call it the war of insurrection, a rebellion against our lawful King and Ruler.

#1 above is precisely why Washington is so deserving of his status. Look around the world, how many times does someone lead a revolution, then turn over the reins?

That was immediately after the war formally ended. He did it again after his second term, right?

[Shawn Pixley]

Kent, I don't care what the others say, if you are a Red Barber fan, you're okay!

[Mike Henderson]

One book I found that I liked about the revolutionary war is "The Long Fuse: How England Lost the American Colonies 1760-1785" by Don Cook.

From what I've read - in several books - it was King George's refusal to compromise with the American Colonies that essentially guaranteed a revolution. The Americans were more than willing to remain British but wanted more control over things that affected them.

Mike

[Kent A Bathurst]

Kent, I don't care what the others say, if you are a Red Barber fan, you're okay!

I never missed the Fridays with Red that Bob Edwards did. He was a wealth of wisdom, in all things. He had a remarkable life, and is sorely missed.

[Frederick Skelly]

One book I found that I liked about the revolutionary war is "The Long Fuse: How England Lost the American Colonies 1760-1785" by Don Cook.

From what I've read - in several books - it was King George's refusal to compromise with the American Colonies that essentially guaranteed a revolution. The Americans were more than willing to remain British but wanted more control over things that affected them.

Mike

Thanks for the tip Mike. I've just added that one to my reading list!
Fred